Longhorn x char vs longhorn x angus

[bckinghorn]

Hi all,

I'm extremely new to cattle, but have lived on a farm all my life. I am looking at hosting weddings on my property, and have decided on longhorn cattle for marketing purposes. My question to you all is what would produce the best quality beef cow in this situation, and can you guarantee that they retain their horns in crosses by going 3/4 longhorn 1/4 other? From what I've read in other threads/forums it seems like at a 50/50 cross it is a guessing game if they will be polled or not, is that true and would adding more longhorn help that issue? The other issue is beef quality/quantity.

I understand that longhorn meat is healthier, but their feed conversion is much worse. I"m looking at crossing the cattle for this reason. Will crossing the longhorns with a fattier breed - like Angus - ruin the health benefits, or would the difference in fat content be negligible? I'm assuming LH X CHAR would grow quicker than LH X ANGUS and the former seems to be the preference on here?

I will be looking at doing direct sales the first few years so dressed out weight is not the biggest issue, I am more looking at pure flavour/tenderness/quality.

Thanks in advance for any help

 

[Buck Randall]

I don't think you can have it both ways. If you want pretty longhorns in the pasture for marketing purposes, you aren't going to be producing a marketable carcass. If you want to sell high quality beef to consumers (and have repeat customers), there's no place for longhorns in the pasture. Decide which angle you want to take and stick with it.

 

[RockinRB]

I tend to agree with Buck

If you want horned crossbred calves, just get a horned char bull. But, the horns on the crossbred cows will still be significantly smaller than the horns of the registered longhorn cows.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I don't think you can have it both ways. If you want pretty longhorns in the pasture for marketing purposes, you aren't going to be producing a marketable carcass. If you want to sell high quality beef to consumers (and have repeat customers), there's no place for longhorns in the pasture. Decide which angle you want to take and stick with it.

Well you peed on that parade.
LH and quality beef is an oxymoron.
If it were they wouldn't bring dog food prices at the sale barn from order buyers.

 

[simme]

If the goal is a conversation piece for the wedding party, cross with Watusi. You will get both horn length and diameter. You will need to put some thought into your handling facilities. If you want to market beef, look for an animal with marbling.
Maybe have a few for the visual and the rest more traditional for beef.

Remember that you will be competing with existing large groups that are already masters of marketing. Those with emphasis on best tasting and those with emphasis on lean/healthy. You have to make your product more desirable to your customers than the product from the big boys. That could be based on price, quality, or niche marketing strategy/perception.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

A waltootsi and a longhorn cross ?? Prepare to be beat like a drum..

 

[MurraysMutts]

So I guess there is a way to downgrade a longhorn....

 

[Dave]

Neighbor's brothers have hundreds of longhorn and longhorn cross cows that they breed to Char bulls. The calves do look nice. The cows do well on this steep sorry range. The trouble comes when feeding them out. When you are selling that many the feeders know where they came from. Get a reputation for under achieving calves and the buyers don't bid. They have had to go to retaining ownership. They come out by grazing them until they are big and only feeding a short time shooting just to make select. It just doesn't work trying to make them grade choice.

 

[Rmc]

Look at Scottish highland they will still give you a conversation piece for the weddings. But the crosses make good direct sale beef your crosses will maintain the highland look for multiple generations

 

[bckinghorn]

I don't think you can have it both ways. If you want pretty longhorns in the pasture for marketing purposes, you aren't going to be producing a marketable carcass. If you want to sell high quality beef to consumers (and have repeat customers), there's no place for longhorns in the pasture. Decide which angle you want to take and stick with it.

I'm a little bit confused by this. I'm planning on doing direct sales/freezer beef, most things I've read online have said that Longhorn Beef tastes better than Angus; it just is not economical for buyers at auction, due to feed conversion, so is not profitable for farmers that sell at auction. From what I understand Angus isn't the best tasting beef, it is just in fashion because everyone does it and it has great feed conversion/ tenderness, along with ease of calving.

Selling LH at auction would be similar to selling Wagyu at an auction, everyone would see thin calves and you would get poor money per pound. If I am not selling at auction, and I am putting people names on cows, wouldn't I avoid that issue? Is the LH beef really that much tougher? I don't care if it takes longer to fill out/doesn't weigh as much, I am solely looking at the health benefits and flavour of the beef. I obviously may be way off base here, so please set me straight if I am missing something.

 

[bckinghorn]

I don't think you can have it both ways. If you want pretty longhorns in the pasture for marketing purposes, you aren't going to be producing a marketable carcass. If you want to sell high quality beef to consumers (and have repeat customers), there's no place for longhorns in the pasture. Decide which angle you want to take and stick with it.

Well you peed on that parade.
LH and quality beef is an oxymoron.
If it were they wouldn't bring dog food prices at the sale barn from order buyers.

Isn't the crap prices at sales barns due to noone wanting to spend the feed on them, they would rather something that grows quicker and can increase profit margins? LH have a bad feed conversion rate, I understand that, but form what I understand the beef is still quality?

 

[bckinghorn]

I tend to agree with Buck

If you want horned crossbred calves, just get a horned char bull. But, the horns on the crossbred cows will still be significantly smaller than the horns of the registered longhorn cows.

Ok, so maybe a few pure bred longhorns for that and some crosses for a bit fattier beef, depending on what the prevailing opinion here seems to be haha. Does mixing with Char significantly increase feed conversion? I am also rather off put with charlais, I have heard they are mean.

 

[bckinghorn]

Neighbor's brothers have hundreds of longhorn and longhorn cross cows that they breed to Char bulls. The calves do look nice. The cows do well on this steep sorry range. The trouble comes when feeding them out. When you are selling that many the feeders know where they came from. Get a reputation for under achieving calves and the buyers don't bid. They have had to go to retaining ownership. They come out by grazing them until they are big and only feeding a short time shooting just to make select. It just doesn't work trying to make them grade choice.

See, I don't ever plan at selling at auction, unless things really go well for me, and I can buy much more land and expand the herd. The area of Canada I am in is rather small town, and has a lot of people that like to buy local and are health focused. I'm planning on doing all direct sales, I feel like if the beef taste is good I shouldn't have an issue. From what I'm reading on here I'm thinking a few longhorn cows and a few char/angus cows and see what makes me more money over the first few years, as well as what people prefer. I guess ill find out quick too, is the skull sale worth the slower feed conversion.

 

[bckinghorn]

Look at Scottish highland they will still give you a conversation piece for the weddings. But the crosses make good direct sale beef your crosses will maintain the highland look for multiple generations

I did look at highland cattle, they fit the bill as well, but living on Kinghorn Rd I figured the longhorns would be a better story.

A major question I'm having now is what crossing the longhorn/highland does to the beefs health benefits? LH is comparable to chicken, does that go out the window if its mixed with a char? What about a highland with an angus?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

In the situation you want to achieve..id stay with all longhorn and find a good beefy longhorn bull..you can retain the longhorn look with some meat hanging on it..

 

[Buck Randall]

I don't think you can have it both ways. If you want pretty longhorns in the pasture for marketing purposes, you aren't going to be producing a marketable carcass. If you want to sell high quality beef to consumers (and have repeat customers), there's no place for longhorns in the pasture. Decide which angle you want to take and stick with it.

I'm a little bit confused by this. I'm planning on doing direct sales/freezer beef, most things I've read online have said that Longhorn Beef tastes better than Angus; it just is not economical for buyers at auction, due to feed conversion, so is not profitable for farmers that sell at auction. From what I understand Angus isn't the best tasting beef, it is just in fashion because everyone does it and it has great feed conversion/ tenderness, along with ease of calving.

Selling LH at auction would be similar to selling Wagyu at an auction, everyone would see thin calves and you would get be nice money per pound. If I am not selling at auction, and I am putting people names on cows, wouldn't I avoid that issue? Is the LH beef really that much tougher? I don't care if it takes longer to fill out/doesn't weigh as much, I am solely looking at the health benefits and flavour of the beef. I obviously may be way off base here, so please set me straight if I am missing something.

I've never seen anyone claim longhorn was good eating unless they were trying to sell it. There's a reason you don't see longhorn on the menu at fancy restaurants for a $100 a plate like Wagyu.

 

[bckinghorn]

I don't think you can have it both ways. If you want pretty longhorns in the pasture for marketing purposes, you aren't going to be producing a marketable carcass. If you want to sell high quality beef to consumers (and have repeat customers), there's no place for longhorns in the pasture. Decide which angle you want to take and stick with it.

I'm a little bit confused by this. I'm planning on doing direct sales/freezer beef, most things I've read online have said that Longhorn Beef tastes better than Angus; it just is not economical for buyers at auction, due to feed conversion, so is not profitable for farmers that sell at auction. From what I understand Angus isn't the best tasting beef, it is just in fashion because everyone does it and it has great feed conversion/ tenderness, along with ease of calving.

Selling LH at auction would be similar to selling Wagyu at an auction, everyone would see thin calves and you would get be nice money per pound. If I am not selling at auction, and I am putting people names on cows, wouldn't I avoid that issue? Is the LH beef really that much tougher? I don't care if it takes longer to fill out/doesn't weigh as much, I am solely looking at the health benefits and flavour of the beef. I obviously may be way off base here, so please set me straight if I am missing something.

I've never seen anyone claim longhorn was good eating unless they were trying to sell it. There's a reason you don't see longhorn on the menu at fancy restaurants for a $100 a plate like Wagyu.

Really? Most sources I have read online say the beef flavour is better than angus, but is very easy to overcook due to leanness, kinda the opposite of wagyu. I also feel like a large portion of wagyu price is marketing. I lived in Australia for a year and was not impressed with their beef at all, which is prized around the world because it is in large part "wagyu". It was nothing like wagyu was in japan, which was pure quality and should demand that much a plate, but I feel like it benefited from the shared name even though the quality wasn't there.

Looks like I'll be doing a lot more research on this.

 

[bckinghorn]

In the situation you want to achieve..id stay with all longhorn and find a good beefy longhorn bull..you can retain the longhorn look with some meat hanging on it..

Do you think crosses would be worth it for better feed conversionn/more tender beef?

I do want to play the health aspect of longhorn beef, so mixing it has always been a bit of a quagmire for me. It might help the tenderness and feed conversion rates, but it could ruin any health benefits?

I have been thinking of a few char/angus cows and a few longhorn cows so I could have the best of both worlds - healthy beef with big horns and good hides, and fattier cows with higher meat yields but no horns to sell.

 

[Little Joe]

A guy that works for me used to work on a feedlot in South Dakota, the owner grew his own grain and had alot of his own cows. The owner ran longhorn bulls with his first calf heifers for easy calving. They retained the longhorn cross calves and fed them out, the guy that works for me said they would always keep one for them to eat. He said the feed conversion was not as good as other cattle, the carcass would be small, but the meat was very good quality and the dressing percentage was higher due to being finer boned. This guy also worked at a meat packig plant in Texas grading beef so I think he knows what he's talking about. I bought some longhorn cows real cheap last fall bred to a black baldy bull, I am going to retain the calves and finish them to sell freezer beef. I will compare the quality to the ones I usually finish and compare the financial side with the lower feed conversion, I will also take into consideration in my figuring how much $$ to get the calves to weaning as the longhorns cost very little to maintain, that might offset the low feed conversion. I'll know the answers next summer as I have a May 27 kill date. I've butchered a full longhorn before that had been roped. I turned her on grass for a while then butchered, I got my half all ground but my neighbor kept the steaks on their half against my advice, he never complained about the steaks but I'd have to believe they were too lean. The guy that works for me believes that my customers will prefer the longhorn cross beef over the angus type, we shall see.

 

[Caustic Burno]

This is really simple if LH were that good they would be in every pasture you drove by. Cattle have a daily cost so until you actually know yours it's all just a guess and most likely welfare cattle.