Longhorn x char vs longhorn x angus

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Little Joe

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bckinghorn said:
Ky hills said:
bckinghorn said:
Ah, ok, thanks. I think I’m looking at crossing 2 speckled park with a LH bull and keeping 2 LH cows for purebreds my first year, and see how each does then go from there.

Now that I kind of have an idea, which do you think would be best to mix with? Speckle park are super good feeders so I’m leaning towards them unless someone has a reason that angus or char would be better.

I don’t know anything about speckled parks, but by the name a mix of them and longhorn would be colorful. Private sales might be alright but they would be docked significantly at the stockyards.

Yea I’m going all private sale is the plan. Want to sell the hides so, for the most part, the wonkier the better IMO.

I don't know how it works there but around here you have to buy the hides back from the processor or they charge more for processing. I was told that they have a contract to sell the hides so the profit from the hides is figured into their break even on processing. Might check into that if you plan on selling hides, by the time you give the processor what he wants and get it tanned might have more in it than it's worth.
 
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bckinghorn

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Little Joe said:
bckinghorn said:
Ky hills said:
I don’t know anything about speckled parks, but by the name a mix of them and longhorn would be colorful. Private sales might be alright but they would be docked significantly at the stockyards.

Yea I’m going all private sale is the plan. Want to sell the hides so, for the most part, the wonkier the better IMO.

I don't know how it works there but around here you have to buy the hides back from the processor or they charge more for processing. I was told that they have a contract to sell the hides so the profit from the hides is figured into their break even on processing. Might check into that if you plan on selling hides, by the time you give the processor what he wants and get it tanned might have more in it than it's worth.

Oh that’s good to know, thank you. I have installed granite and marble counter tops the last few years and have a few designers I work with frequently that has expressed interest in locally sourced hides, so we shall see I guess.

My last question before I let this thread die might be a silly one, but I am confused on the effect of a bull-cow cross. Maybe it is because I can’t figure out how to word the question properly.

When breeding what characteristics will the bull pass down compared to a cow? Why is the preference to put charolais bulls on longhorn cows, instead of longhorn bulls on charolais? What different traits would be passed down from the different breed being the sire instead of the dam?

Thanks to everyone for all their input throughout this thread btw.
 

Buck Randall

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bckinghorn said:
Little Joe said:
bckinghorn said:
Yea I’m going all private sale is the plan. Want to sell the hides so, for the most part, the wonkier the better IMO.

I don't know how it works there but around here you have to buy the hides back from the processor or they charge more for processing. I was told that they have a contract to sell the hides so the profit from the hides is figured into their break even on processing. Might check into that if you plan on selling hides, by the time you give the processor what he wants and get it tanned might have more in it than it's worth.

Oh that’s good to know, thank you. I have installed granite and marble counter tops the last few years and have a few designers I work with frequently that has expressed interest in locally sourced hides, so we shall see I guess.

My last question before I let this thread die might be a silly one, but I am confused on the effect of a bull-cow cross. Maybe it is because I can’t figure out how to word the question properly.

When breeding what characteristics will the bull pass down compared to a cow? Why is the preference to put charolais bulls on longhorn cows, instead of longhorn bulls on charolais? What different traits would be passed down from the different breed being the sire instead of the dam?

Thanks to everyone for all their input throughout this thread btw.
Genes are passed equally from both parents, so it doesn't really matter which breed is which, in that sense.

A 1900 pound Charolais cow costs money to feed. She needs to raise a big calf to pay her way, and it's not happening if the sire is a longhorn. A longhorn cow can be purchased and fed for cheap. The Charolais bull is used to try and make a bigger, growthier calf out of her.
 

Little Joe

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What Buck said! You wouldn't want to feed a 1900 lb cow that cost alot to buy just to produce longhorn cross calves, the other way makes sense. The longhorns I have I paid less than $400 each for bred to a black baldy bull, if they'd been charolais I'd paid $1200+ each for them.
 

Dave

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Little Joe said:
bckinghorn said:
Ky hills said:
I don’t know anything about speckled parks, but by the name a mix of them and longhorn would be colorful. Private sales might be alright but they would be docked significantly at the stockyards.

Yea I’m going all private sale is the plan. Want to sell the hides so, for the most part, the wonkier the better IMO.

I don't know how it works there but around here you have to buy the hides back from the processor or they charge more for processing. I was told that they have a contract to sell the hides so the profit from the hides is figured into their break even on processing. Might check into that if you plan on selling hides, by the time you give the processor what he wants and get it tanned might have more in it than it's worth.
I don't know about where you are but they do farm slaughter here. The last two I had butchered I took the loader tractor out there and told them they could put anything they didn't want in the bucket. I would run the guts out to the bone yard where the coyotes would clean it up. When they put the hides in I asked about it. They said they had to pay to have the hides hauled off. They were happy to have me take them off their hands. So the coyotes and ravens got to chew on them.
 

Little Joe

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Dave said:
Little Joe said:
bckinghorn said:
Yea I’m going all private sale is the plan. Want to sell the hides so, for the most part, the wonkier the better IMO.

I don't know how it works there but around here you have to buy the hides back from the processor or they charge more for processing. I was told that they have a contract to sell the hides so the profit from the hides is figured into their break even on processing. Might check into that if you plan on selling hides, by the time you give the processor what he wants and get it tanned might have more in it than it's worth.
I don't know about where you are but they do farm slaughter here. The last two I had butchered I took the loader tractor out there and told them they could put anything they didn't want in the bucket. I would run the guts out to the bone yard where the coyotes would clean it up. When they put the hides in I asked about it. They said they had to pay to have the hides hauled off. They were happy to have me take them off their hands. So the coyotes and ravens got to chew on them.

Interesting, maybe that changes with leather prices or is a regional thing, I'll check on it next time I have one processed. So when they slaughter on the farm, do you have your own cooler you hang them in for a time period before being processed?
 
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bckinghorn

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Little Joe said:
What Buck said! You wouldn't want to feed a 1900 lb cow that cost alot to buy just to produce longhorn cross calves, the other way makes sense. The longhorns I have I paid less than $400 each for bred to a black baldy bull, if they'd been charolais I'd paid $1200+ each for them.

Alright, thanks everyone! Just a dollars and cents thing there, makes sense.

Appreciate everyone’s input and help :)
 

Dave

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Little Joe said:
Dave said:
Little Joe said:
I don't know how it works there but around here you have to buy the hides back from the processor or they charge more for processing. I was told that they have a contract to sell the hides so the profit from the hides is figured into their break even on processing. Might check into that if you plan on selling hides, by the time you give the processor what he wants and get it tanned might have more in it than it's worth.
I don't know about where you are but they do farm slaughter here. The last two I had butchered I took the loader tractor out there and told them they could put anything they didn't want in the bucket. I would run the guts out to the bone yard where the coyotes would clean it up. When they put the hides in I asked about it. They said they had to pay to have the hides hauled off. They were happy to have me take them off their hands. So the coyotes and ravens got to chew on them.

Interesting, maybe that changes with leather prices or is a regional thing, I'll check on it next time I have one processed. So when they slaughter on the farm, do you have your own cooler you hang them in for a time period before being processed?
The farm slaughter is a part of a custom cut and wrap business. They come in a truck with a refrigerated box. There is a track just like at the plant. The quarters are hung in the back of the truck and taken to their shop for processing. Normally the hides, heads, legs, and guts are loaded into garbage cans which are loaded between the cab and the truck box. The only thing they leave behind normally is the blood and stomach contents.
 

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A guy that works for me used to work on a feedlot in South Dakota, the owner grew his own grain and had alot of his own cows. The owner ran longhorn bulls with his first calf heifers for easy calving. They retained the longhorn cross calves and fed them out, the guy that works for me said they would always keep one for them to eat. He said the feed conversion was not as good as other cattle, the carcass would be small, but the meat was very good quality and the dressing percentage was higher due to being finer boned. This guy also worked at a meat packig plant in Texas grading beef so I think he knows what he's talking about. I bought some longhorn cows real cheap last fall bred to a black baldy bull, I am going to retain the calves and finish them to sell freezer beef. I will compare the quality to the ones I usually finish and compare the financial side with the lower feed conversion, I will also take into consideration in my figuring how much $$ to get the calves to weaning as the longhorns cost very little to maintain, that might offset the low feed conversion. I'll know the answers next summer as I have a May 27 kill date. I've butchered a full longhorn before that had been roped. I turned her on grass for a while then butchered, I got my half all ground but my neighbor kept the steaks on their half against my advice, he never complained about the steaks but I'd have to believe they were too lean. The guy that works for me believes that my customers will prefer the longhorn cross beef over the angus type, we shall see.
Little Joe, Hey I am wondering how you liked the full Longhorn ground beef?
 

southalberta

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Longhorn beef and longhorn angus cross beef is excellent. I don’t pay attention to feed conversion etc does take some longer for sure. But big framed cows make big framed calves. Start with the correct type of cows even down to whatever color you want.
 

southalberta

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The crosses highly depend on the bull used and cow growth. They take after angus and have about 3 months behind straight beef. Or they are long legged and hornless these grow slower but get enormous. Have a couple heifers that will be 2 in July are already 1500 pounds
 

southalberta

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Brahman bull with horns.


Most brahmas are horned. Many have been dehorned for handling. Some are polled.

Note that brahman cattle tend to have higher birth weights. Longhorns tend to be low birth weight. Something to consider if you think about breeding a brahman bull to a longhorn cow.

Brahman crosses are tops for hot humid climates with big insects - Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Mexico, countries near the equator. Maybe not so much for British Columbia. But they are pretty durable. What breeds do you see in your area?
I have Brahman crosses as well in south Alberta they do great in winter (up to 2/3 Brahman). Calving needs to be in a barn calves are very narrow and get cold easily if below -15C for 3-4 days.
Bonus with the Brahmans no ring worm, lice etc. Most Brahmans I have are easier keepers than the longhorns and Corrientes. These are all rodeo stock but solid coloured or brindle with horns.
 

southalberta

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I don't know how it works there but around here you have to buy the hides back from the processor or they charge more for processing. I was told that they have a contract to sell the hides so the profit from the hides is figured into their break even on processing. Might check into that if you plan on selling hides, by the time you give the processor what he wants and get it tanned might have more in it than it's worth.
Not the case here.
 

BC

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Bckinghorn, I would like to see where you find that LH is healthier? I understand the want to have "picturesque" cattle for the venue, but those cattle do not make a good eating experience (too lean, tenderness issues, too little muscling). If you want to use LH cows because you can buy them cheap, use a good polled Charolais bull on them and sell the calves at about 350 lbs before the LH shows up in them.
 

Jafruech

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Hi all,

I'm extremely new to cattle, but have lived on a farm all my life. I am looking at hosting weddings on my property, and have decided on longhorn cattle for marketing purposes. My question to you all is what would produce the best quality beef cow in this situation, and can you guarantee that they retain their horns in crosses by going 3/4 longhorn 1/4 other? From what I've read in other threads/forums it seems like at a 50/50 cross it is a guessing game if they will be polled or not, is that true and would adding more longhorn help that issue? The other issue is beef quality/quantity.

I understand that longhorn meat is healthier, but their feed conversion is much worse. I"m looking at crossing the cattle for this reason. Will crossing the longhorns with a fattier breed - like Angus - ruin the health benefits, or would the difference in fat content be negligible? I'm assuming LH X CHAR would grow quicker than LH X ANGUS and the former seems to be the preference on here?

I will be looking at doing direct sales the first few years so dressed out weight is not the biggest issue, I am more looking at pure flavour/tenderness/quality.

Thanks in advance for any help :)

Pic 1: 5 month old steer that's 25% LH and 75% ANG. His dam is behind him (50% LH and 50% ANG)

Pic 2: 8.5 mo old heifer 25% LH, and her dam that's 50/50

Sigh...I start to get a little agitated with the polled, scur, and AH gene discussions on here. If you don't understand genetics, you shouldn't comment on things you don't understand.

It is genetically impossible to get a single horned calf if you use a Homo Polled Bull (PP) on a Horned Cow (pp) or a horned bull on a homo polled cow (AH Gene excepted). If you're running an Angus Bull on a LH cow you don't have to worry about the African Horned Gene anyway. Generation 1 you will get all Hetero Polled offspring (Pp), Generation 2 you will have 50% Hetero Polled, 50% Homo Polled. They will all be polled regardless. Scurs are a completely separate gene. The phenotypical expression of Scurs is influenced by the Polled gene, but scurs is a completely different gene. A homo polled cow or bull (AH gene excepted) will always, 100% of the time produce polled offspring. If you get anything else, you don't have a homo polled bull or cow. Period.

One of the most successful grass-fed operations here locally that direct markets is 100% LH. Caustic has pretty much been consistent in his opinion...and If you use the wrong bulls and the wrong cows these guys are absolutely right. If you use the right bulls and right cows you will have a phenomenal herd and you will not take a hit at the sale barn. I should know. I just sold calves in December that were 12.5%-25% LH and they came close to topping the market...the year before the same...the year before the same. When I grass finish they grade choice or above.

The health, fertility, growth, hardiness, calving ease, intelligence, disposition, and disease resistance traits of having longhorn influence in your herd is unbeatable for my environment and operation. I have an 1150ish lb cow that is 50% LH that is almost 18 years old now. She is the first one to calve, first one to breed back, and she weans a 600lb calf pretty consistently. I don't care how you run the numbers...I'll put the profitability of that cow against anyone's. I've had "great" genetic pure angus and hereford and traditional crosses that came from higher rainfall areas of Colorado. When they came down here they fell apart within a month while my cows were gaining and getting fat. My cows perform excellent on crappy forage, and they blow up and gain like crazy on good grass and grain. Feed Efficiency and conversion is undervalued by people in higher rainfall areas. One of my repeat private treaty customers grain finishes and the last group he finished graded choice with a few grading prime....I don't really care what anyone's opinion is compared to fact.

My calves averaged around 2 lbs ADG this year with mineral and grass (calculated on sale day after 45 days of weaning). The area they are pictured in is a small sub irrigated area, the rest of the pasture is dead and brown. This year became a pretty bad drought year (D-4 from the FSA). I'm more than happy with that performance in a drought with little to no inputs on my part. My cows are great mamas, easy fleshing, wean great calves that sell well and have some of the best disposition I've seen. Zero calving issues ever.

That said...you can't just hodgepodge things together. You need to have a plan and select cows and bulls that fit that plan.

1. Get solid red / Solid black LH cows. The fancy colors are pretty but won't fit what you're trying to do.

2. Get LHs that are beefier, and raised by an operation that doesn't pamper them. I source my LHs from a guy locally that raises beefier longhorns that are raised with little inputs and expected to survive and thrive on the same forage as mine with little input. By sourcing that way, I benefit from his 40+ years of selection and breeding and get the traits I want. Then I go through and select based on the phenotype I want and disposition.

3. Select angus bulls that compliment what you're trying to do. My must haves for selection are thickness, muscling, marbling, and disposition. There's other traits and specific phenotypes I look for, but those are the main ones.

4. Cull hard and often.

I've also run a Hereford bull (I like the old world type) on the 50% and 75% cows with excellent results. The 50% have more variation in the calf crop than I like, but dang they grow like crazy and they have sold well even with the variation.

I've worked a lot of different breeds of cattle here and down south. I wouldn't trade my cows for any of them....but I'm a little biased.

What you want to do can be done...and it can be done profitably. Most of that depends on you, your plan, your environment, and your management and marketing decisions. Anyone who wants to argue with that, can argue with my bank account and sales receipts.
 

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Warren Allison

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Pic 1: 5 month old steer that's 25% LH and 75% ANG. His dam is behind him (50% LH and 50% ANG)

Pic 2: 8.5 mo old heifer 25% LH, and her dam that's 50/50

Sigh...I start to get a little agitated with the polled, scur, and AH gene discussions on here. If you don't understand genetics, you shouldn't comment on things you don't understand.

It is genetically impossible to get a single horned calf if you use a Homo Polled Bull (PP) on a Horned Cow (pp) or a horned bull on a homo polled cow (AH Gene excepted). If you're running an Angus Bull on a LH cow you don't have to worry about the African Horned Gene anyway. Generation 1 you will get all Hetero Polled offspring (Pp), Generation 2 you will have 50% Hetero Polled, 50% Homo Polled. They will all be polled regardless. Scurs are a completely separate gene. The phenotypical expression of Scurs is influenced by the Polled gene, but scurs is a completely different gene. A homo polled cow or bull (AH gene excepted) will always, 100% of the time produce polled offspring. If you get anything else, you don't have a homo polled bull or cow. Period.
Actually, crossing two Gen 2 Pp will yield 50% of the offspring that are homozygous polled PP, 25% heterozygous polled Pp, and 25% homozygous horned pp.
 

Jafruech

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Actually, crossing two Gen 2 Pp will yield 50% of the offspring that are homozygous polled PP, 25% heterozygous polled Pp, and 25% homozygous horned pp.

Correct, if you're talking about breeding your own bulls. I should have been more clear.

I wrote that with the assumption that they would not be breeding their own bulls.

So when I said Generation 2 I was assuming the first Gen heifers would be bred back to a homo polled bull, thus resulting in the 50 homo and 50 hetero polled. Hopefully that makes more sense.

If you wanted to breed your own bulls out of the cross you would need to wait till gen 2 or after and then send in a blood sample to verify if they are homo or hetero polled to make sure you don't get horns.
 

ismith

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Here’s my wife’s pet LimousineXLonghorn heifer. She’s in calf to a Hereford and we’re excited to see the results.
 

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