Linebreeding Info

[Silver]

That has nothing to do with this thread^

Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't. That would depend on if some of those boys are breeding their mothers or their sisters wouldn't it?

 

[Supa Dexta]

Well since you feel like typing - Post up some of the IBCs and AVKs, and what you've been seeing over multi generational pairings. Lets get down to business.

 

[Silver]

The whole point of my post was to point out that all the time spent agonizing over matings will probably not net much over blind luck. Except I'm sure in your case, I know you must be setting the world on fire.

 

[Supa Dexta]

You may wanna head over to facebook if you just wanna write words on a page.

 

[Silver]

You may wanna head over to facebook if you just wanna write words on a page.

Well smarty pants, perhaps you want to fill us in on the great strides you've made over the average producer. You know, seeing as you're full of wisdom tonight.

 

[Supa Dexta]

No I asked for pertinent information within a long standing thread, and you felt the need to inject your herd stats into it. So the floor is yours. Carry on. Again what program are you using for simply calculating inbreeding coefficients and how many single animal pedigrees, and generations does it support?

 

[Silver]

Well, I'll tell you what I've found. It works until it doesn't. There's no more to it than that. If you want to complicate it and confound us with brilliance then carry on.
In the end all the $20,000+ plus bulls mated to their close expensive relates amount to nothing much more than high dollar bragging rights that mean nothing in terms of real world profitability or functioning cattle.
There is no shortage of folks that want to tell us how wonderful this bloodline is or this mating is, and I guess the point of my post was simply to be the guy that says what nobody else wants to: raise good cows, retain good heifers, and you'll out do all the fancy high priced line bred matings on an across the board average. And you won't have to waste a day pondering matings when you could have done something productive.
I think these points are valid to the thread, and obviously you do not. I don't think there is a rule on this board that we need to agree, nor is there one that says we can't disrupt a thread with our points of view on a subject. And now you have my clearly stated view on the subject of the thread.
You're welcome.

 

[Supa Dexta]

'It works until it doesn't'.. So profound. Be sure to let the entire black angus breed know that, the holstein industry, Every breed of dog, chicken, pig, all modern animal agriculture has got to where it is due in part to line breeding..

That would be the same as me showing up in a silage thread and going.. Wait just one minute now! silage only works until it doesn't. Don't even bother trying to make silage, you'll just end up with rotten feed eventually.. - because you had one bad batch of silage? Or you could just throw away the rotten silage and carry on with what works.

I didn't start a new thread saying, oh hey guy's I just heard of this crazy new thing called fancy inbreeding, whats that all about? We're well beyond your concerns.....And eventually someday, when I finally do buy a cow, I'm gonna line breed it and feed it silage.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Supa - are you being serious? You don't own any cattle?

 

[Supa Dexta]

Thought about it once.

 

[Ebenezer]

Some years are tightening and some years are for building. A son/mother mating is due on one, a lineXline on several groups, an AI effort on a foundation cow from an old bull and the breeding plans this year are going to focus on the start of another line from the 60's and 70's. Still have 4 or 5 half brothers to use on half sisters and first cousins in the years ahead.

 

[Stocker Steve]

'Every breed of dog, chicken, pig, all modern animal agriculture has got to where it is due in part to line breeding./quote]

Outcrossing on a put together herd is an easy way to increase variability. Been there.

Neighbor has a registered herd that is AIed to a variety of proven growth bulls. A few more fancy calves than commerial herds, but still a huge amount of variation.

 

[TwoByrdsMG]

We are going to try a couple at less than 8% Inbreeding Coefficient to try to moderate several things in two Iines.

Firefly (Cleo (Romance x Zander) x Boulder (Navarra x Zamora)) x Fantom (Excaliber (Cleo x Colt 45) x Cocoa (Zayna x Trojan)
Calf coefficient 7.81% (4 generations)
Gypsy (Cleo (Romance x Zander) x Epic (Classie x Bentley)) x Fantom (Excaliber (Cleo x Colt 45) x Cocoa (Zayna x Trojan)
Calf coefficient 6.25% (4 generations)

Looking to moderate frame size in Cocoa's line and increase frame size and width of hip in Cleo's line.

Cleo was the AMGA national champion cow/calf pair and produced the Grand Champion bull (yearling) and Champion heifer in 2018.

Cocoa was the Reserve national champion female of the breed for 2018.

Both cows have excellent milk, depth, length and are structurally sound. If these crosses are not successful then we will limit our inbreeding coefficient to less than 5%. If successful we may allow up to 10%.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

We have three females that are the result of mother to son matings. They range in age from 3 months to 5 years, and we really like each one of them. Our best calves each year routinely are the crossing of two particular lines, OK Sadie and JOPA Elation Power. These two lines are relatively unrelated, and the first cross between these two lines produces some very nice calves. However, when these progeny are bred back to another individual that is closely related to OK Sadie or Elation Power, the calves are just as good and many are even better than their parents. If you have two superior individuals, I would recommend breeding them, regardless of parentage.

 

[kentuckyguy]

Thanks for that info Backbone Ranch. I have looked into paths to linebreeding a lot and things are kind of confusing.

After hearing this from you it really helps. You have some excellent looking cattle anyone would be proud to own.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The biggest thing that you need to be concerned with when you linebreed/inbreed - is genetic defects.

 

[Lucky_P]

I know Jeanne didn't mean that inbreeding/linebreeding creates or causes genetic defects... but some seem to think that. Rather, in/linebreeding increases the likelihood of recessive genes (whether a 'defect' or not) being expressed.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I know Jeanne didn't mean that inbreeding/linebreeding creates or causes genetic defects... but some seem to think that. Rather, in/linebreeding increases the likelihood of recessive genes (whether a 'defect' or not) being expressed.

Yes, exactly!!

 

[Nesikep]

We have three females that are the result of mother to son matings. They range in age from 3 months to 5 years, and we really like each one of them. Our best calves each year routinely are the crossing of two particular lines, OK Sadie and JOPA Elation Power. These two lines are relatively unrelated, and the first cross between these two lines produces some very nice calves. However, when these progeny are bred back to another individual that is closely related to OK Sadie or Elation Power, the calves are just as good and many are even better than their parents. If you have two superior individuals, I would recommend breeding them, regardless of parentage.

I didn't have much luck with father-daughter matings, I have one Mother-son heifer that's due for her first calf.. no surprise, she's called Copy because she looks so much like her momma... I have a full sibling mating, she looks good, but the best one seems to be a 3/4 sibling mating.. Her momma is just an awesome cow anyhow and hits a home run no matter the bull

 

[Backbone Ranch]

We have three females that are the result of mother to son matings. They range in age from 3 months to 5 years, and we really like each one of them. Our best calves each year routinely are the crossing of two particular lines, OK Sadie and JOPA Elation Power. These two lines are relatively unrelated, and the first cross between these two lines produces some very nice calves. However, when these progeny are bred back to another individual that is closely related to OK Sadie or Elation Power, the calves are just as good and many are even better than their parents. If you have two superior individuals, I would recommend breeding them, regardless of parentage.

I didn't have much luck with father-daughter matings, I have one Mother-son heifer that's due for her first calf.. no surprise, she's called Copy because she looks so much like her momma... I have a full sibling mating, she looks good, but the best one seems to be a 3/4 sibling mating.. Her momma is just an awesome cow anyhow and hits a home run no matter the bull

We had a similar experience with the father-daughter matings. Phenotypically, the calves looked good, but they did not have the weight or growth of the other calves. The cow that we bred back to her son (Tony), is the very best in our herd. Every year, her calves have been either number one or number two in the entire herd. These are our three females from mother to son matings. The first is pictured as a 2 year old bred heifer, the next is pictured at 3 years, and the calf is a month old. The first female, 406, weaned a terrific heifer calf in 2017 as a first calf heifer, and in 2018, she weaned a bull calf that was 51% of her body weight. The 514 female is due to have her second calf in the next couple of weeks. She did well with her first calf, and I have high hopes for her as well.