Land Auction

[stocky]

There is a land situation that I want so see if anyone has had experience with or any advice. There is a small place that borders part of my place. It is 42 acres and is rough, steep, rocky, and not worth much for cattle. The only good way to get to it is across my place. It is going to be auctioned off in 2 weeks due to the death of the owners and their children are selling it. The only reason for me wanting it is that it provides a very good way into the back side of my place and I dont want someone else having that access. It would make it to easy for some meth producers or low-life's to get in there and steal or destroy.
Here is the dilemma. I was told by a family friend that they had the place sold but the buyer found out there is asbestos buried there and it will cost 60 thousand to remove it, so the buyer backed out. That is why they are selling it at auction. My questions are: Does the auction company have to reveal the asbestos problem at the auction? Is it mandatory that the site be cleaned up, or can it just be left alone? If someone buys it, do the former owners have any responsibility for the cleanup? I have e-mailed the auction company with these questions but gotten no response.
Has anyone had any experience in this type of situation? I am in Missouri and I dont know if laws vary from state to state on this.
Thanks

 

[jw]

Contact a state board like the Missouri Real Estate Commission or whatever they may call it there. I'm in Texas and we have the Texas REC, so you should have something similar. You might also check with a real estate lawyer.
Good luck.

 

[Bez]

Best to find out if the story is true.

Might not be.

Then find out how much and where.

Then find out if it needs to be cleaned up - might be ok as it is.

Then again if you get all the answers, it should go real cheap - planning to sell in the near future?

Bez

 

[stocky]

thanks jw and bez. i am going to do the contacting at the state level. i know where it is buried, i just don't know for sure it is asbestos. they used an old pond that wouldnt hold water for a dump for 20 years or more and then they filled it in and covered it over. i have quail hunted that property since i was old enough to carry a shotgun. i am still going to press the auction company for something in writing so that i will have recourse and also i want everyone to know so i dont get into a situation with someone else buying it and then i have epa people all over the place

 

[msscamp]

"I was told by a family friend that they had the place sold but the buyer found out there is asbestos buried there and it will cost 60 thousand to remove it, so the buyer backed out. That is why they are selling it at auction. My questions are: Does the auction company have to reveal the asbestos problem at the auction?"


According to my business law class this past semester, if they know asbestos is buried there, yes, they do have a responsibility to reveal it. The key phrase here is 'if they know'.


"Is it mandatory that the site be cleaned up, or can it just be left alone?"


I'm thinking it's probably mandatory, under the law, that it be cleaned up. The EPA is pretty darn picky and asbestos is a known carcinogen.


"If someone buys it, do the former owners have any responsibility for the cleanup?"


Considering the former owners are dead, I would imagine the responsibility passes to the buyer. Depending on the circumstances, the responsibility may pass to the children, but it may not too.


"I have e-mailed the auction company with these questions but gotten no response."


You probably will not get a response from the auction company as this is a potential loaded gun waiting to explode. I would contact an attorney. Another option would be to contact the EPA and ask them using a hypothetical situation, such as a report or some such thing having to do with school or your own curiosity with another situation. Attorneys would know the law in your area, and be better versed to answer your questions. And, of course, the EPA would know how it is handled. A third option would be to go to the county courthouse and research the parcel of land. Depending on the recorded name of the owners, it may give you at least an idea of whether the charges may or may not be true. I can fully understand why you want this parcel of land, and I wish you the best of luck.

 

[easter]

i would think if it is already buried it would be better left alone.

 

[Chuckie]

Without the asbestos problem, I would jump on it in a heartbeat. But with the asbestos problem, I would definitely check into it beforehand. Asbestos creates a type of cancer that is uncurable. Steve McQueen died from asbestos cancer. I don't know what it's capabilities would be as far as traveling through the soil or in water. I would get more than one opinion too. On this subject, I would want to know exactly what I was dealing with, as I have found people do give wrong advice. I would hate to buy it and then find out later on, that it was going to be condemned. In some round about way, it could affect your property. Let us know what happens. Good luck.

 

[Crowderfarms]

My 2 cents worth is that if indeed there is Asbestos buried there, and it's known by people to be there,they would be wide open for a Law Suit if they did not disclose it. It would be like the common disclosure laws pertaining to known defects. A good Real Estate Lawyer could answer your question fully.

 

[Bama]

Asbestos is not a problem if left undesturbed. The "dust" form it contains fibers that will get into your lungs if you breath it. If it is buried I think the buryier ( is that a word ) would be responsible.

 

[preston39]

stocky,

If I really wanted the land. I would get some questions answered. You are beginning with somewhat of a rumor...which I would first verify with long term neighbors in the form of a question...and not perpetuate an acqusation. How reliable is the person who told you this? Other people should have some knowledge about the land also...for verification. Check with the long term city/county fathers. We can hear some weird rumors at times...folklore...whatever.

Check with EPA of known sites...history....and their thoughts in general. Is it ok if buried deep enough? If you have a local enviromental engineering company they may have some info. also.

Was there historical industry in the area that processed asbestos?

If it is a known thing...by the auctioneer...I think they have a duty to reveal it. But, most likely they would have no way to know...if the sellers didn't tell them.

Just some thoughts.

 

[stocky]

thanks everyone for the excellent advice and thoughts. i have contacted the auctioneers and they are unaware of it, so i made sure they are aware of the possibility. they guy who told me lives as a renter in the house and has lived there for about 10 years but is a nephew of the people who died. the material in question was put in an old dry pond. they put in everything from refrigerators to house waste material to old house siding to shingles---general junk from their jobs or waste from wherever---i watched them fill the pond for 20 years of more, but i had no idea what asbestos was and no one thought anything about it. a few years ago the filled over the pond and whatever is in there, is in there. when i talk to the relatives they say anything could be in there, because they put everything they wanted to in the old pond. am still researching whether or not it would have to be dug up and disposed of, but i am sure if i wanted to resell the land at a later date, i would have to do something with it in order to get a good price.

 

[brokenmouth]

sounds like your getting worried over nothing. its probably safe to say that every farm in whole country has a dump site like that. for generations it was the onlyway to get rid of junk that wouldnt burn. as far as the asbestos goes if your talking about asbestos siding remember that it was very common for decades and never hurt anybody then. sure wont hurt anybody if its buried in your pasture. since then a lot of those old junk heaps have had dirt pushed over them to get rid of the eyesore and keep the cows out usually when a dozer was on the place for something else anyway. i hope you get the place but it sounds like your really hurtin for something to do if you dig it up.

 

[sidney411]

I agree brokenmouth - there is a 'dump site' on our property that has everything in it too. It has been covered over for a long time but we still know its there, under the ground. It doesn't affect anything, it just looks like pasture. I'm sure there sites are more common then most people think. You may even be living on top of one now. IMO, there should not be a problem to just leave it alone as long as it doesn't wash out. Do some more checking for your own peace of mind though. And if the info gets out you might could pick up the property for next to nothing ;-)
Good Luck! Please let us know what you find out.

 

[eric]

Shoot, depending on how bad you wanted the property would determine how much of a stink you made about it. If you wanted the property really bad, then you should be sure and let everyone know about the asbestos, might even put a few signs up (or maybe a few dead animals for a really nice touch!) Might even tell folks you might of heard something about it having to do with the original owners expiration.

Notice I saidyou should do these things, as I would never condone any of these practices.

 

[Bama]

Don't worry about the buried asbestos. It is all around you anyway. Older floor tiles, siding, pipe insulation, walls, ceiling tiles, brake pads, ... The only problem is when it is cut or disturbed. Disturbing it causes fibers in the dust. These fibers stick in your lungs if inhaled. All of it being buried wouldn't be a problem. I would think that some of the other stuff would be more of a problem than asbestos. If some of the other stuff was a liquid it could contamanate the ground water.

 

[TheBullLady]

As a Realtor, I can tell you that the auctioneers will have to disclose the information you've provided them with .. but with the caveat that it is "said" there is a dump site there. They don't have to actually go and find it, they can leave that up to the potential buyer to determine or not.

Every neighbor on every piece of property I've ever sold has had a "horror story" to tell about either the former property owner or something they were told was done.. a fence that's off the line.. etc. etc. It may very well be true, but sometimes it's not.

Why do you say it has asbestos in it? Are you saying that because of the building material? Siding? I don't know if there's enough volume of asbestos in old siding to warrant an EPA cleanup effort. I suspect it's impact on the ground water is going to be the most important thing.

And yes.. if you buy the property and subsequentually sell it, you'll have to disclose your knowledge of the dump site.

Good luck!

 

[stocky]

thanks BullLady for the professional insight.
the info comes from their relative that currently lives there and has been there several years and lived across from the place for all his life and he worked for the family who owns it. he knows what he is talking about when it comes to what is there. i have no idea if the story is true of why the other buyer backed out. he backed out because he said it would cost as much as he was paying for the place to clean it up---60.000. i dont know if it has to be cleaned up. if i bought it, and if i ever wanted to sell it, i am sure i would have to clean it up. i havent yet found out if i would have to clean it up just for buying it. seems like i need to give proof that something is there before they tell me what my obligations would be, and proof, i dont have---wont have it unless i buy it---lol. then it is too late.
my thoughts are that there are a couple of places i would really like to have if they ever become for sale. this place is only wanted to keep anyone from having free access to the back side of my place. it isnt woth anything for cattle pasture or anything else unless i built a road through my place to get to about 7 or 8 fantastic view building spots. however, i dont intend to sell an inch of my place, so it isnt valuable to be except for safety-sake. another couple of weeks and we will see how the auction goes. i am supposed to talk with the auction company again tomorrow

 

[sidney411]

Stocky - let us know how things turn out, and if you get the property.

 

[Conagher]

Not sure about your area, but I know in Texas there is an environmental assessment form (TREC No. 28-0, I think) that you can attached to the sales contract which allows you to hire, at your expense, an environmental specialist to perform an assessment. Bull Lady may be able to give you more detail since I am not a realtor. And, not sure how it would work in an auction but may be worth looking into or maybe even requesting from the auction service. Good Luck!

 

[stocky]

thanks for the advice. i have been able to find out that the family says there was asbestos buried from old shingles that the family had been hired to dispose of and it was buried in 2 refrigerators which were dug up a few days ago and disposed of in a asbestos disposal. they have the paperwork that shows that they disposed of some asbestos and they are going to present this at the auction to guarantee that there isnt any buried there. this accomplishes my goal of being able to buy the property without fear of my liability with the asbestos because now that they are saying it is gone, they will be liable if there is any left there. the auction is next monday evening, so the wait is almost over. now, the key will be whether or not it brings too much money