Labour/management Deal

[1wlimo]

Just wondering what sort of deal in terms of % sales in return for supplying all labour and management for a cow calf operation.

Seams most information I can find includes machinery.

This is in Canada so includes winter feeding, making hay etc.

 

[Brute 23]

I would not do a % of sales deal alone for salary. Maybe as a bonus or partial but not as the whole pay.

 

[Son of Butch]

Just wondering why you would want to hire someone based on your % of sales?
How many hours per day are you expecting of them? How much management control and input are you expecting of them?
I would think pay based on hours with a bonus based on % of Net profit increase would be fairest. Rather than a gross sales %
and risk them managing your herd into increasing Gross sales, but with a Net loss.

 

[1wlimo]

Just wondering why you would want to hire someone based on your % of sales?
How many hours per day are you expecting of them? How much management control and input are you expecting of them?
I would think pay based on hours with a bonus based on % of Net profit increase would be fairest. Rather than a gross sales %
and risk them managing your herd into increasing Gross sales, but with a Net loss.

Good point re increased sales with net loss,

I would be providing labour/ management.

I have been with out cattle since 2011 and need (want) a way back in.

 

[Brute 23]

That leaves way too many variables and makes it really easy for you to get screwed.

That person can run you in the dirt because they are going to pay you the same % no matter if you work 8 hours a day or 18 hrs a day.

Not to mention losing sales to things out of your control. Flood, lightning, stupid bull purchase by owner... all effect your pay check.

In all honesty, probably couldn't get away with that in the US with the labor laws.

 

[Bigfoot]

I must have needed money worse back them, but in my late teens, and early 20's I managed a herd for 50% of the gross. Many times I'd take a big part of my half in heifers. At the time, it seemed like a good deal. Best I remember it was about 50 cows. The old man wasn't hard to please. He rarely got out. That was 25 years ago, and things have changed a lot since then. I believe a 500 pound steer could be had for 400 dollars. It seemed like a quick way to build my herd, and I guess it was.

 

[Son of Butch]

In all honesty, probably couldn't get away with that in the US with the labor laws.

You can get around all labor laws, social security taxes, unemployment insurance ect. just by hiring them as an independent contractor and not as an employee.

 

[regolith]

In all honesty, probably couldn't get away with that in the US with the labor laws.

You can get around all labor laws, social security taxes, unemployment insurance ect. just by hiring them as an independent contractor and not as an employee.

Look into how sharefarming is done in NZ/Australia. I only know about how it works in the dairy industry - in my situation I own the cattle and machinery and do all the labour to run the farm, get 50% of the milk income and all of the cattle sales, but there are restrictions on what cattle I can have on the farm.
"Lower order" sharemilkers are more like managers who pay some of the costs - relief milking, maybe electricity to run the milking shed - but work with someone else's cows. Rates run from 20 - 40% of milk income, usually 20 - 25%.
Both are 'employed' as independent contractors. It's a business relationship between farm owner and sharefarmer, not an employer/employee relationship. In some circumstances, you're better off just working for a salary.

 

[Brute 23]

I can see that regolith. Especially if you have written contracts and are pit up some money. That almost makes for a partnership type deal.

In all honesty, probably couldn't get away with that in the US with the labor laws.

You can get around all labor laws, social security taxes, unemployment insurance ect. just by hiring them as an independent contractor and not as an employee.

That's not true. Try hiring a person in to do home health as a contractor.

Showing up day in and day out to take care of and manage cattle would not hold up as contract labor if some one wanted to push it.

A contractor for us that does construction just got hammered for trying to claim some of the guys that worked for him were contract labor. Cost him some where around $1.4 million.

They have really cracked down on all that the past couple years.

There is a fine line. You better have paper work and watch your communications if you are going to claim some one as a contractor.

 

[boondocks]

[/quote]
You can get around all labor laws, social security taxes, unemployment insurance ect. just by hiring them as an independent contractor and not as an employee.[/quote]

That's not true. [/quote]

Yup. There's a lot of gray area but for sure, it does not simply depend on how the "payor" chooses to characterize the relationship. If it's regular/ongoing work, at set hours, and the work is under your direction/control, for example, it won't matter what you try to call it.

 

[Brute 23]

You can get around all labor laws, social security taxes, unemployment insurance ect. just by hiring them as an independent contractor and not as an employee.[/quote]

That's not true. [/quote]

Yup. There's a lot of gray area but for sure, it does not simply depend on how the "payor" chooses to characterize the relationship. If it's regular/ongoing work, at set hours, and the work is under your direction/control, for example, it won't matter what you try to call it.[/quote]

Exactly :nod:

It's all fine and dandy until the person working for you gets mad from being layed off or fired.. Then you will be in the hot seat to prove they were a contractor.

 

[CottageFarm]

I have a friend in Nebraska that pays 50% of his calf crop to the people who run his herd. Any lost calves come out of his half.
He helps work calves in the Spring but I think thats because he wants to, not because he has to.

 

[bigbull338]

if you are letting some1 run your cows and they are full care.then the cost should be $50 or $60 a month.

 

[1wlimo]

In all honesty, probably couldn't get away with that in the US with the labor laws.

You can get around all labor laws, social security taxes, unemployment insurance ect. just by hiring them as an independent contractor and not as an employee.

Look into how sharefarming is done in NZ/Australia. I only know about how it works in the dairy industry - in my situation I own the cattle and machinery and do all the labour to run the farm, get 50% of the milk income and all of the cattle sales, but there are restrictions on what cattle I can have on the farm.
"Lower order" sharemilkers are more like managers who pay some of the costs - relief milking, maybe electricity to run the milking shed - but work with someone else's cows. Rates run from 20 - 40% of milk income, usually 20 - 25%.
Both are 'employed' as independent contractors. It's a business relationship between farm owner and sharefarmer, not an employer/employee relationship. In some circumstances, you're better off just working for a salary.

Thanks regolith,

Rates for beef with machinery here go over 50%, between 60 and 70%, but this deal/opportunity is a chance to start without the debt of machines from day one.