Kicking the hay habit

[Muletrack]

Since he's always following other crops and zero tilling it's not taking a ton of effort to do. Most times he's not even spraying. The production will be much higher per acre with the seeded crops vs hay too. In our area if you're haying a good alfalfa field that's fertilized and you only get one cut you'll need 3 acres to winter a cow. If the field isn't very good or unfertilized production will fall off and you could be looking at 7-14 acres to winter a cow some years. Guys seeding grain, corn, millet, sorghum/sudan, triticale etc can usually pretty easily winter a cow on an acre or 3 cows/acre on a good corn crop. Lack of.production costs money too, you need more acres and it costs almost the same to cover ground for a poor crop as it does for a good one.

I'm all for extending the grazing season and if you figure out your cost/HD/day when you're feeding and you assign the same value for days that you would be feeding but don't have to because you seeded something to extend grazing it usually pencils out pretty well.

Thanks. Those are good comments and help improve my perspective.

 

[Muletrack]

Gabe is a likable land rich forage guy who focuses on improving the soil. His recipe for improved pasture is two years of cover crop mixes followed by a perennial pasture mix. Direct marketing drives his financials.

No. You are not in the fescue belt, and Dave' book was written in a period when hay was very cheap. Buy Gordon Hazard's book if you need some winter reading. Tour the Dickinson station if you want to see some winter grazing.

You have to decide if you are a grain guy, a cattle marketing guy, or a forage guy. An optimizing forage guy will have several soil zones that require different approaches. I have three:

-Wet permanent pasture. Could be worked in a bad drought if you really like reed canary, but you might have to wait 50 years, and/or do fall tillage.

- Poorly drained meadow soils that do not grow grain crops well and are too far north to justify tile plus a lift station. Probably has enormous deer pressure... I struggled with how to afford renovating this kind. Current effort is based on a little grading with a dozer, a Jap millet mix, a cross bow, and a really long sod rotation.

- Better drained upland soils that need fertility and water holding capacity. Here I use a variation of Gabe' recipe that usually starts with bale grazing and ends up being a 7 to 10 yearlong rotation. The perennial sod will often get a one cut and then graze treatment each year.

I see a book by Dr. Hazard for sale on Amazon for $796. Probably worth it!

 

[FullCircleWVa]

I see a book by Dr. Hazard for sale on Amazon for $796. Probably worth it!

I'll go half

 

[Ebenezer]

Might want to consider stockers in the warm season and destock for winter.

 

[daneg]

Thoughts and Advice from an Old Cattleman

Thoughts and Advice from an Old Cattleman

powerflexfence.com

 

[Stocker Steve]

My farm was nearly all in corn this year (but did not produce well because of the drought).

I used to spend all fall around Rutland, and those boys really liked to do fall tillage...

So you are dry enough to swath graze grasses, and also have a lot of corn stalks to graze?

 

[Stocker Steve]

I see a book by Dr. Hazard for sale on Amazon for $796. Probably worth it!

My copy has been highlighted for I will let is go for $850.

 

[anewcomer]

Since he's always following other crops and zero tilling it's not taking a ton of effort to do. Most times he's not even spraying. The production will be much higher per acre with the seeded crops vs hay too. In our area if you're haying a good alfalfa field that's fertilized and you only get one cut you'll need 3 acres to winter a cow. If the field isn't very good or unfertilized production will fall off and you could be looking at 7-14 acres to winter a cow some years. Guys seeding grain, corn, millet, sorghum/sudan, triticale etc can usually pretty easily winter a cow on an acre or 3 cows/acre on a good corn crop. Lack of.production costs money too, you need more acres and it costs almost the same to cover ground for a poor crop as it does for a good one.

I'm all for extending the grazing season and if you figure out your cost/HD/day when you're feeding and you assign the same value for days that you would be feeding but don't have to because you seeded something to extend grazing it usually

 

[anewcomer]

Rydero, good point. If you feed hay 5 months a year, and can figure a way to graze 2 months longer in the fall, or a month longer in the fall and a month earlier in the spring, you just cut your hay bill by 40%. That should make anybody's bottom line look better. You don't have to totally eliminate hay.

 

[Rydero]

Rydero, good point. If you feed hay 5 months a year, and can figure a way to graze 2 months longer in the fall, or a month longer in the fall and a month earlier in the spring, you just cut your hay bill by 40%. That should make anybody's bottom line look better. You don't have to totally eliminate hay.

Yes exactly. Don't use the hardest months as an excuse to not do anything. Work on the easiest ones first. Assuming it makes sense from an economic and performance standpoint, which I think it does. Feed is the single largest expense here for a cow/calf producer.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I try to graze as long into winter as possible. I still have cows grazing thru the snow but am also unrolling a bale here and there for them. I'm on borrowed time as the snow will get deep enough anytime that they won't be able to graze. I'll take everyday I can at this point.

As for earlier in the spring that is also a crap shoot. Too early and the grass is stunted and it never recovers. With our snow load there is no "stockpileing" for early spring grazing. 200 inches of snowfall ensures all the standing grass is pressed firmly into the soil and rotten/ moldy by spring. Sometimes there's still snow into late May other years its gone in April.

Guess my point is a guy needs to have enough hay on hand to feed the full 6-7+ months of winter UP here. If the weather cooperates and you only feed for 4 months then you have excess hay to sell or carry over, if the weather gets ugly early and stays ugly then you have enough feed to get thru. But only having say 4 months of feed on hand going into winter is a recipe for disaster.

 

[kenny thomas]

I can see that many of you have no option but to feed hay. I need to figure out where the best point is for me profit wise is. I can get by on feeding a month but I question if that's the most profitable point.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

We get an average of 120" snow. I never could see stockpiling around here.
I plan to feed 6 months. If it's less, woohoo.

 

[faster horses]

We have found if you can get your cows into body score of 6 going into winter, it doesn't take as much hay to keep them in BS 6 as it does to let them get into BS 5 before you start feeding. Cows in BS 6 can lose one body score (80#) and calve in BS 5 and not hurt the cow or the calf. Going into winter in BS 5 and trying to keep that BS or feed to BS 6, is expensive. If they slip one BS, then they are calving in BS of 4. They are too thin and that will hurt you in the long run. FWIW.

 

[anewcomer]

Kenny, working on the same stocking rate question you are. Don't know if it's legal, but would you call me at 334) 549-3631 to discuss? We may have something to share w the Board.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

We get an average of 120" snow. I never could see stockpiling around here.
I plan to feed 6 months. If it's less, woohoo.

We (I) had people who lived up around Saratoga, Lake Lucerne and Glen Falls back in the time of troubles.
Sometimes I sort of wish they would have steered to the left a tad when they came west.
Never heard a word about going back to enjoy winter on the Hudson.
Summers yes, winter not so much,,

 

[wbvs58]

A bit of hay in the shed would be handy here but rarely happens. We get through winter very well on stockpiled grass, our cows start calving in the 2nd month of winter. Where we do often have a shortfall of feed is in the 1st 2 months of spring. The extra heat seems to disintegrate what grasses are left and rain just doesn't happen until we start getting a few storms coming through late spring. If I can get some oats in in autumn it is very handy to tie me over in late spring.

Ken

 

[kenny thomas]

Kenny, working on the same stocking rate question you are. Don't know if it's legal, but would you call me at 334) 549-3631 to discuss? We may have something to share w the Board.

Yes I will call but you probably don't want me calling now. I just crossed into GA on I-95 heading south. Stopped at the welcome center.