It is going to Happen

[hrbelgians]

FYI for all of the heifer haters:

Heifers are your future herd and bull selection plays a very important factor........

Hey Hillsdown I like it!! :banana:
I guess some of us will need to be stupid enough to breed heifers in order to have cows!! :lol:

 

[Caustic Burno]

Not true most are there because some Cattleman needs a paycheck the salebarn is not evil. The salebarn is the best friend we have as Cattlemen to liquidate cattle to cash on any day. It is buyer beware, and you have to have an eye for cattle if you don't don't buy.
I have bought a many a good cow through the salebarn, have I ever been burned yep, have I ever been burned from a seedstock producer yep again, have I ever been burned on one I retained you bet.
There is an old gal in the pasture right now that was bought as SS for 360 buck's three years ago fixing to drop her third calf. Thats what you call a money maker.

Of all the things a person can do wrong in the cattle business, it seems sometimes on this board that buying cattle at the sale barn is the absolute worst. You can't go to the sale on a given day and say I'm going to buy some cows today. You may have to pull an empty trailer home several times. Eventually you can find some that fit your program if you're a commercial operator. Two weeks ago I took a mama cow to the sale that I bought in Mar. 1999. She was a full mouth at the time (meaning in our area probably over 5 yrs.) this means she had calved probably four times before I got her. I sold her eighth calf for me the same day. I paid $540 when I bought here and got $416 when she was sold. This is the exception but I've had far more good experiences than bad. FWIW

Whats funny is they don't even realize that if people like you and I were not buying at the salebarn how low there prices would be for there cattle.

 

[TexasBred]

I've never lost but one cow purchased at the sale barn and she was one that I shouldn't have bought. Pretty sorry OLD cow but long bred. Anyway, she did fine til we had about 3 days of cold drizzle and she lay down and never got up. Ended up having to end her misery. You may have to drag that trailer to the sale a dozen times and bring it home empty but don't ever think you just have to buy cows. Sit, watch, and learn. Same for PO'ing a cow. If for whatever reason she doesn't sell good, bring her back home. You gotta drag the trailer back home anyway. I don't have that perfect eye for cattle either but do have enough sense to watch them sell and check out feet, legs, udder, body condition, snotty noses, droopy ears, and runny eyes. When in doubt don't buy the animal. The same for selling animals. Folks learn the kind of cow or calf you typically sell and when they know you have cows selling that day you can count on those folks showing up and paying a premium for your cattle.

Just my 2 cents worth. I'm sure others have had some nighmares dealing with salebarn cattle.

 

[dyates]

I must be in a different world from Georgia. Here, cows don't go to the sale barn unless they are culls. Culls for calving problems, health problems, crazy as a lunatic etc. There are some exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions. This past year was an exception to the rule because the drought forced farmers to cull animals that they wouldn't have culled otherwise. Heifers are a whole different ballgame, as well as special replacement sales.

 

[BC]

I must be in a different world from Georgia. Here, cows don't go to the sale barn unless they are culls. Culls for calving problems, health problems, crazy as a lunatic etc. There are some exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions. This past year was an exception to the rule because the drought forced farmers to cull animals that they wouldn't have culled otherwise. Heifers are a whole different ballgame, as well as special replacement sales.

As I have said before, here in East Texas we swap cows to have something to do. It gives a reason to go to the sale. To some it is their hunting or fishing or golf. Only fall in love with your wife and kids, not your cows.

As several have mentioned, we see a good many estate sales. Parent or grandparents die and the hiers want cash. With 16 sale barns less than 100 miles from here, you can go 6 days a week. Not every animal is sold because of problems.

 

[Dave]

I don't even take the trailer with when I go to the sale because most of the time it would come home empty. If you go to the sale figuring you have to buy on that day..... well it will be a crap shoot. If I buy something I can go home and get the trailer. If not I have a cup of coffee with my friends and watch cattle sell. An awful lot can be learned just sitting in the sale barn watching and listening.

 

[texast]

On the orignal subject this is one of those truths thats hard for me to accept, but it is a truth. I haven't lost a calf or cow yet but I know that day will come (hopefully not).
Now as far as the sell barn goes. A pretty cow a pretty cow with ear,and get throwed off with maybe she'll get home and be the best cow ever all because she has the look I like. Forget to look at feet and signs of health issues.All because she is so pretty. Lucky reality hits and I'm back to inside and trying to understand how the bidding is going.
I buy from the stockyard because I have gotten cows there that I can afford at the time.One time got a cow that never left the auction she would fight her on shadow.
I usually go to Hockley or Navasota auctions and the guys there are good about saying which ones came from a good home.I'm currently looking for just an good cow as they would call it "a backyard" cow to keep my bull company since he's in the pasture alone.

 

[Caustic Burno]

FYI for all of the heifer haters:

Heifers are your future herd and bull selection plays a very important factor........

Agree with ya, Hillsdown. If a person has that much problems with heifers, they just might be using the wrong bull. In 3 years since going to Braunvieh I've yet to even assist a heifer, or cow, while giving birth. Oh wait, I did have a cow that the calf was backwards, but I'm not exactly blaming the bull.

This is a business of reducing losses and cost no matter where it is. Your cost will be higher retaining versus buying a replacement cow as well as the tax advantage insurance if you lose the purhased cow. The retained heifer has no value. The precentage of calving problems is going to be higher in heifers thats fact, that equates to reduced profits, Retaining cost are higher which leads to reduced profits.
Anyone that claims they don't have losses don't own cattle.

 

[MikeC]

This is a business of reducing losses and cost no matter where it is. Your cost will be higher retaining versus buying a replacement cow as well as the tax advantage insurance if you lose the purhased cow. The retained heifer has no value. The precentage of calving problems is going to be higher in heifers thats fact, that equates to reduced profits, Retaining cost are higher which leads to reduced profits.
Anyone that claims they don't have losses don't own cattle.

OK.OK. We believe you. We believe you.

So every heifer should go to slaughter and no one retain heifers? :lol: :roll: :shock:

Where will the cows come from then???????????????????????????????

I enjoy calving heifers and have no where near 10% losses. If I went back over the last 15-16 years I'd bet it was below 1%. Plus, I use those dreaded Charolais (shudder).

I lost my first one a few weeks ago in several, several years and will take full responsibility.

But I agree with guys like you who have day jobs and don't have time to manage properly. Buy older cows. :roll:

 

[TexasBred]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Well put Mike :!: :!: :!:

 

[Bama]

I buy mostly from sale barns. The ones that I get cheap are the ones I have more problems with. New folks don't realize this. If they got a "bargin" there is a reason the order buyers stopped bidding. If you buy a nice cow or calf at a high price you probally will get what you paid for. Unless someone is slow walking you because they know they can. I look at it as how much risk and what reward potential. A nice fat calf purchased and sold as a nice fat has little profit. A poor sick purchased sold as a nice fat makes lots of profit. A poor sick also has lots of risk. You have to developed an eye of the condition verses the potential before you get the money to stop in your pocket. I've been doing this for years and still get burnt from time to time. The sale barn ain't a awful place to buy and sell cattle. Learn the process and you can make money.

 

[Caustic Burno]

This is a business of reducing losses and cost no matter where it is. Your cost will be higher retaining versus buying a replacement cow as well as the tax advantage insurance if you lose the purhased cow. The retained heifer has no value. The precentage of calving problems is going to be higher in heifers thats fact, that equates to reduced profits, Retaining cost are higher which leads to reduced profits.
Anyone that claims they don't have losses don't own cattle.

OK.OK. We believe you. We believe you.

So every heifer should go to slaughter and no one retain heifers? :lol: :roll: :shock:

Where will the cows come from then???????????????????????????????

I enjoy calving heifers and have no where near 10% losses. If I went back over the last 15-16 years I'd bet it was below 1%. Plus, I use those dreaded Charolais (shudder).

I lost my first one a few weeks ago in several, several years and will take full responsibility.

But I agree with guys like you who have day jobs and don't have time to manage properly. Buy older cows. :roll:

I said they have a higher percentage of problems I choose not to deal with because it equals less profit.
I have also stated that they are not worth the xtra money to raise one before you get a return on your investment which equals again less profit the cow is returning to the operation.
Why raise a heifer and put two years worth of money on a maybe. When I can buy a proven commodity cheaper everyday. Why retain anything that has no value?
The only day job I have is here reporting to the Mrs. thats the only time clock I have to punch.
It is just good business you just don't like it cause your a seedstock producer and draw a premium from people that don't know better off buying heifers.
Oh I love goofy people like you, you bear all the cost and I will pick the heavy up cheaper and she will be returning to the operation almost immediately.

 

[Crowderfarms]

I dont want my point obscured.I've bought at least 50% of our Cattle at sale barns. I've lost a few, and I mean very few over the years, mostly to shipping fever. If you're going to buy at the SB, my advice would be to patronize the barns that are more Farmer oriented, than the ones that have a lot of "Transit Cows" or "Trader Cows". In other words barns that have more local cattle sold at.It's still like a used car lot. Buyer beware, and aware.

 

[MikeC]

It is just good business you just don't like it cause your a seedstock producer and draw a premium from people that don't know better off buying heifers.

Seedstock is not my only game. I very rarely sell heifers. On occasion I will send some to the feedlot, but my purebred culls go into the commercial herd.

You might have bought some of my older, cull cows at the salebarn though. You know, the ones with bad udders, the fools, the ones that have prolapsed, the ones with bad feet and eyes.... :lol:

The only clock is the missus, huh?

 

[Caustic Burno]

It is just good business you just don't like it cause your a seedstock producer and draw a premium from people that don't know better off buying heifers.

Seedstock is not my only game. I very rarely sell heifers. On occasion I will send some to the feedlot, but my purebred culls go into the commercial herd.

You might have bought some of my older, cull cows at the salebarn though. You know, the ones with bad udders, the fools, the ones that have prolapsed, the ones with bad feet and eyes.... :lol:

The only clock is the missus, huh?

Yep thats the only one, think I have bought one tank of fuel for the truck since Dec.
Don't leave this hill very often I have been to Livingston twice to the sale thats about 100 miles for both trips.
See Mike the problem you have is it is not your way.
You can't see and don't even want to think there might be a more profitable way.
That is one good thing about this board people can see how other people operate.
There is no one right way for each enviroment.
I have never said it is wrong to retain I have said it is not as profitable.
There is no good business reason to retain in a commercial operation, in a seedstock operation yes there is genetic value.

 

[angus9259]

Read post on here everyday about this problem or that from the newbies.

You are going to loose calfs just part of the business plan on 10%, you should do better, but plan for it.
Some just get here looking for a place to die this is where you have to learn to draw the X and not drop 400 bucks on a losing battle trying to save it.
You will have down cows if you stay in this learn when to draw the X again.
You are going to have a higher loss percentage dealing with heifers just fact.
If you don't believe it just read the board on heifer versus mature cow calving problems.
The biggest and hardest lesson is developing an eye for cattle and cutting off problems or reducing loss by getting old Belle the salebarn . Its not going to happen overnight.

Thanks for the reminder. Had my first AI sired calving by my best cow yesterday. Twins. Both dead. Watched it happen. Never heard a greater truth spoken.

 

[houstoncutter]

For my place, having done the sale barn thing, I look for people going out of business. Most times you can get good cows that have a medical record to go on. The sale barn in my neck of the woods has far too many animals with different types of verinal diseases. I have raised my on heifers, and still do, but if I can find proven cows in my area that is the way to go .. CB hit it on the head ,in a commercial setting they are more profitable than messing with heifers

 

[hrbelgians]

CB wrote: Yep thats the only one

Well I guess technically you are a full time cattleman NOW! How long has it been now? :roll:

The last time I punched a time clock was October 1986.

If you are good enough to hold on since 1986,,,,You better keep it up, as you will get old and feeble as soon as you quit!! Mostly because you will miss it so much. :nod: :nod:

 

[angus9259]

It is just good business you just don't like it cause your a seedstock producer and draw a premium from people that don't know better off buying heifers.

Seedstock is not my only game. I very rarely sell heifers. On occasion I will send some to the feedlot, but my purebred culls go into the commercial herd.

You might have bought some of my older, cull cows at the salebarn though. You know, the ones with bad udders, the fools, the ones that have prolapsed, the ones with bad feet and eyes.... :lol:

The only clock is the missus, huh?

Yep thats the only one, think I have bought one tank of fuel for the truck since Dec.
Don't leave this hill very often I have been to Livingston twice to the sale thats about 100 miles for both trips.
See Mike the problem you have is it is not your way.
You can't see and don't even want to think there might be a more profitable way.
That is one good thing about this board people can see how other people operate.
There is no one right way for each enviroment.
I have never said it is wrong to retain I have said it is not as profitable.
There is no good business reason to retain in a commercial operation, in a seedstock operation yes there is genetic value.

Genetic value = profitability for seedstock. For seedstock, there is no other way.

I do both. I do retain some commercial heifers. I run angus seedstock, but limi and simi cross commercial. If there is real value in heterosis, then there is also genetic value in retaining some of those heifers too. I cull the cows/heifers that won't wean as good a calf so that's what people buy from me - cows that will put down 100 lbs less calf at weaning. They could be a great looking healthy cow, but don't wean. Hard to make money that way too.

Heifers are usually a loss leader. But the immediate "loss" is "leading" to profitability.

 

[Jogeephus]

Angus9529 wrote

Heifers are usually a loss leader. But the immediate "loss" is "leading" to profitability.

You put words to my feelings. Thanks.