IS HAY REALLY TOO HIGH?

[piedmontese]

Let me start this off by saying that i have never baled hay so i'm not sure of the amt of work involved.i do know it takes alot of equipment,fuel,manpower,etc.everyone,me included is complaining about hay prices and how the sellers are screwing people.but are they really or are they just getting paid a decent wage.how much $$ does it take to produce a 1,200lb bale of prairie that is bringing $70 and up in my area?

 

[bigbull338]

yes hay prices are way to high no matter how you slice it.all you have in native hay is your baling cost,if you own the land if not baling plus the cost of hay pre bale.so that hay should be worth no more than $60 a bale.the truth is the hay is fair priced in alot of areas.its the $3000 in hauling plus the cost of the hay thats the killer.say you buy the hay for $60 plus $75 in trucking that makes each bale worth $135.then if your reselling the hay $150 to $175 a bale.

 

[cross_7]

how do you figure the price of hay ?
figure the number of bales produced per acre and price it compared to what the same acre of cattle, wheat, corn, cotton ?
figure land cost, fert, weed spray, diesel, equip cost, labor ?
no real way to figure.

now as a buyer
a 1000# bale will feed a cow for about 30 +/- days @ 25 pounds of consumption a day (depending on quality and waste)
so as a buyer a 1000# of hay aint worth much considering it only feeds 1 cow for a month.

so what can you afford to spent a day to feed a cow, on top of land, equip, & all other expenses.
i personally can't make cows pay for the land, then throw in all other expenses and i'm way in the red.

the cost of a bale of hay is what the market will bear.
supply and demand.

 

[Jogeephus]

I don't think the price of hay has kept in pace with the cost of production. On average, hay has been $35/roll around here since diesel was $0.90/gal and fertilizer was way cheaper than whatever it is this minute. On the same note, I don't think beef prices have kept up with cost of production either. With all these added costs I can still find ribeyes for five something a pound if I watch for specials. But all of this is no matter because things are as they are and I think the key to raising cattle is to turn forages into something worth something more and when you can't do this then its time to get out of the cattle business and bide your time till you can unless you wish to pay for the privilege of being aggrevated with cattle. JMO

 

[1wlimo]

I think that there are a lot of people makingh hay that do not really have much idea of the real cost to them. They should include a rental equivalent (even when they on the land), fertiliser costs, but also the reseeding costs and establisment of the hay sward. This is a high cost here as an alfalfa sward is only really productive for five years, maybe six. Then there is the cost of haying, wich should included the feul, labour, repairs etc, but also the cost of replacing the machinery.
There is also then the oppertunity cost of the money invested in the whole opperation (land, crop, machines).
Here where a lot of people will only get the one cut this year, and have on some quaters not cut the whole area they would normally puts the real cost of the hay up. Ture costs for some will be $60 a bale or higher, that would be around the $90 a ton with the hay still in the field.

 

[Dave]

Alfalfa in the irrigated west took a big jump this year. What caused that was the jump in the price of wheat, corn and other crops. Alfalfa is now $220-240 a ton FOB. But when compared to 8 dollar wheat or 7 dollar corn. That is where it has to be to the farmer. At $200 a ton for hay with 6 ton yeild that is $1,200 an acre. For that you have to mow, rake and bale four cuttings. And worry about the weather. Irrigated wheat doing 150 bushels at $8 is $1200 an acre. You plant and combine. A whole lot less trips over the field. Less worry about the weather. That is why 10% of the alfalfa was plowed down this year, which in turn pushed up the price.

 

[1982vett]

I don't think the price of hay has kept in pace with the cost of production. On average, hay has been $35/roll around here since diesel was $0.90/gal and fertilizer was way cheaper than whatever it is this minute. On the same note, I don't think beef prices have kept up with cost of production either. With all these added costs I can still find ribeyes for five something a pound if I watch for specials. But all of this is no matter because things are as they are and I think the key to raising cattle is to turn forages into something worth something more and when you can't do this then its time to get out of the cattle business and bide your time till you can unless you wish to pay for the privilege of being aggrevated with cattle. JMO

:nod:

 

[houstoncutter]

Hmmm so some people think hay prices are too high. You know I can use that same logic and say cattle prices are too high... You folks sure you still want to use that logic.. If you have not stockpiled hay in the past, you took a gamble that you would get timely rains. This year you crapped out!!! So stop whinning, sell your cattle and quit feeding high dollar hay....When you do. Guess what? The price of the hay will come down. The main thing is to figure out, is how in the future you can reduce the hay consumption and feed bill if you wish to be in the cattle biz, cause $25 dollar a round is gone.

 

[TexasBred]

Everything is too high when you're buying.....to cheap when you're selling. Just the way we are. :cowboy:

 

[Limomike]

Everything is too high when you're buying.....to cheap when you're selling. Just the way we are. :cowboy:

I tend to agree with you TB..

 

[Suzie Q]

How much does it cost to make a $70.00 bale of hay? You need the same amount of equipment to make one bale of hay as you do to make 1000 bales of hay.

If you start from nothing just put down how much it costs to buy:

A tractor - let's say second hand for $20,000.00 (Australian dollars)

A soil test $200.00

Ploughs - we have quite a few that we bought second hand. Some hundreds of dollars each or you can go up to a powered plough for $35,000.00 or more.

The ground has to be worked for 12 months prior to planting. If you don't and the crop fails you have no fallback. Add to the soil what is recommended in the soil test. Can be thousands of dollars. Quite silly if you don't.

Irrigation - to put down the irrigation cost the former owners $100,000.00 but that was say 20 years ago so you might want to add some dollars on for inflation.

2 bores I have no idea of the cost of that - one submersible pump cost us $15,000.00, but there are two down there. No idea on the irrigator but to replace the hose is going to cost us $5,000.00

The seeder, well we managed to get that cheap for a couple of thousand dollars. A fertiliser spreader is not as much second hand, about $500.00.

The lucerne (alfalfa) seed and fertilizer for a small paddock is again over $1,000.00

To water the seed, put down over $100.00 a day to irrigate for the electricity. 3 days to irrigate the whole small paddock. How many times for a crop is up to the weather.

Mower conditioner - ours was $15,000.00 second hand.

$7,000.00 for a new rotary rake, less for second hand, you can't work another job and make hay at the same time. You rake during the day. Every day from the day you started.

Baler - A baler, around $5,000.00 or under for a small square baler second hand. $15,000.00 for a second hand round baler. Don't forget that everything you buy second hand will break down more than something bought new.

We bale lucerne at night so as you don't knock the leaf off. You can only bale for so long until the dew comes down and you have to stop. So if not finished you are raking during the day and baling at night. Some nights it can be midnight before it is ready to bale. It is not long before you are a walking zombie and can't be trusted to do anything that needs thinking or not.

You need a hay trailer (several $$$$$)to pick up the hay. By hand if you don't have an accumulator and grab ($16,000.00) for small bales. A hay fork on a tractor to pick up round bales.

For us that means 3 tractors. One baling. One pulling the hay trailer and one picking up the hay. The hay puller is 75 hp. The baler 95 hp and the one picking up the round bales is a new one that is only 75 hp but we were told it would outpull an 85 hp John Deere Tractor. That tractor is a Valtra and cost us $80,000.00 yes you could buy second hand for less. That tractor needs to have a front end loader for the hay fork.

If small square bales they have to be kept undercover. So another $30,000.00 for the hay shed. Which is actually too small a shed if you want to be commercial. So a bigger shed would be better.

Round bales would have to be kept inside if going to be kept to be sold, so you would need a larger shed than that.

A truck so as you can deliver the hay. Ours $135,000.00 which is nowhere near a semi trailer.

The year before last the bore was hit by lightning. Took months to fix, we missed the hay season.

Last year whole property in flood for months, but it was the abnormal rain every day for 3 months that killed the lucerne. So we missed the hay season again and this time lost our crop.

We have seeded 2 paddocks and are ploughing another one. The lucerne has started coming up for this hay season. Let us hope that we do not get a flood that drowns it and have to start from square 1 again.

Now add in services on the tractors, oil, diesel, filters, same for truck as well as rego, and if not bought with you own money interest at the Bank.

I don't think I have forgotten anything. Other than paying other workers if you can't do it all yourself.

Then imagine your life completely and totally ruled by the weather. You can cut when they say no rain for months and it will rain the next day, and remember that this is a job that has a high amount of suicide.

So how much is a bale of hay worth. If you ask me. PRICELESS.

 

[Suzie Q]

I know what I forgot. You might have to buy a property first.

 

[gimpyrancher]

I wonder what the outcome would be if you let cows consume the hay in the field. Rotational Grazing? I have no doubt it it expensive to buy or rent all the very expensive equipment it takes to plant, grow and harvest the "food" in the field. Is this where rotational grazing tends to make things cheaper? I wonder how much the hay is worth without all the expensive equipment to continue to do "what we've always done."

I admit I'm new to this game but are the old ways still the best?

 

[baleflipper]

Hay is a means to store grass from a time of plenty to a time of want.

 

[Angus Cowman]

I wonder what the outcome would be if you let cows consume the hay in the field. Rotational Grazing? I have no doubt it it expensive to buy or rent all the very expensive equipment it takes to plant, grow and harvest the "food" in the field. Is this where rotational grazing tends to make things cheaper? I wonder how much the hay is worth without all the expensive equipment to continue to do "what we've always done."

I admit I'm new to this game but are the old ways still the best?

But in a drought situation you can run out of grass pretty quick and need to feed hay or have to sell out one

 

[stocky]

The answer to that question will depend on who it is answering it. Nothing on the farm is high enough when you consider the production costs. Even that 125 dollar bale of hay only brought 35-40 to the farmer if he was in Missouri and it was shipped to Texas. You can figure every detail of cost but in anything to do with farming, it will not add up to making money when you do that. Nowhere in farming is production cost figured into what you receive, unless you have built a business where you deal straight with the consumer and they will pay whatever you ask---some sort of specialty market.
The value of hay is totally dependent on what someone is willing to pay for it.
As for myself, 25 dollars for a 4x6 of good grass hay is what I can afford to pay for hay to feed to cows that I buy, to winter and resell. Higher than that, I have to skip buying cows. 35 dollars for the 4x6 is what I can afford to buy to keep my permanent cows. Those are my values for hay.
I had planned on buying alot of cows this fall, so in March, I bought about 1200 bales of hay for 15-25 dollars per bale. In June and July, I paid 35 for 900 more for my permanent cows. Now, with no rain since late May, and feeding 10 bales per day, right now, not only will there be no buying of cows, there will also be selling about 100 springer cows in a couple of weeks and sold 110 head of calves 60 days early last week, just to have enough to get through the winter. If we still do not get any rain in the next 2 weeks, that means another 50 cows go to town.
There is all the talk of 2000 dollar cows next spring, and I hope they are. The last time this happened was in 1980 and cows were going to be sky high "next spring". Spring came and you could buy the top cow-calf pairs for 300 dollars per pair. So, I am not going to borrow and bet the farm by trying to keep the cows, ever again.
So, is hay too high at 70-125 dollars per bale? To me it is.

 

[bigbull338]

The answer to that question will depend on who it is answering it. Nothing on the farm is high enough when you consider the production costs. Even that 125 dollar bale of hay only brought 35-40 to the farmer if he was in Missouri and it was shipped to Texas. You can figure every detail of cost but in anything to do with farming, it will not add up to making money when you do that. Nowhere in farming is production cost figured into what you receive, unless you have built a business where you deal straight with the consumer and they will pay whatever you ask---some sort of specialty market.
The value of hay is totally dependent on what someone is willing to pay for it.
As for myself, 25 dollars for a 4x6 of good grass hay is what I can afford to pay for hay to feed to cows that I buy, to winter and resell. Higher than that, I have to skip buying cows. 35 dollars for the 4x6 is what I can afford to buy to keep my permanent cows. Those are my values for hay.
I had planned on buying alot of cows this fall, so in March, I bought about 1200 bales of hay for 15-25 dollars per bale. In June and July, I paid 35 for 900 more for my permanent cows. Now, with no rain since late May, and feeding 10 bales per day, right now, not only will there be no buying of cows, there will also be selling about 100 springer cows in a couple of weeks and sold 110 head of calves 60 days early last week, just to have enough to get through the winter. If we still do not get any rain in the next 2 weeks, that means another 50 cows go to town.
There is all the talk of 2000 dollar cows next spring, and I hope they are. The last time this happened was in 1980 and cows were going to be sky high "next spring". Spring came and you could buy the top cow-calf pairs for 300 dollars per pair. So, I am not going to borrow and bet the farm by trying to keep the cows, ever again.
So, is hay too high at 70-125 dollars per bale? To me it is.

what do you think will happen if the drought doesnt break this winter like they think an goes deep into 2012.personally i dont think you can afford to give $2000 a hd for run of the mill stock cows.an if your right reg cows will be selling for $4000 a hd.plus hay will still be high next because the meadows may not bounce back as expected.

 

[stocky]

Bigbull, plus you have the factor of hay ground being turned into corn and soybeans, so there is much less hay ground. I think there will be alot of people who will go broke giving 1200-1500 for cows when it is all said and done. Not, even to mention the ones who give 2000 or more, if it comes to that

 

[bigbull338]

see thats exactly what im thinking,because this drought is sucking all the excess hay out of every state this year.i know we wont buy hay to keep going this year.like you we will cull the herd hard,an we will also feed a all in 1 feed from our local coop.right now we have 40hd to sell but trying to let it cool off so we dont stress them out trying to sort an load them.we wont buy cows back less we have the hay an the price is right.

 

[jedstivers]

Suzie Q, why so long to fix a well? Here we are back pumping in 2-3 days max. We can even have a new well drilled an everything in that time if we have to. In fact this year I did have one go bad in the flood water so when we tried to start pumping we found out it was bad. I ask the well man when he could get me a new one in and he said tomarrow so that's what we did.