Interseeding clover into sod

[Stocker Steve]

Have you seen different results with frost seeding vs. a no till drill?

 

[dun]

There have been 2 things that have made a difference. The shortness of the grass and the timing of the frost seeding. Frost seeding has been reliable for us except one year when we didin;t get the freezing after the seed was broadcast. Clover has to be planted really shallow, when drilling it I've had better success with just sort of spreading the grass apart enough that the seed is touching the grond and pressed in firm contact with the soil then when I actually got it under the soil. But we have what could charitably be called "heavy" soil, It's clay that drys on the surface very quickly and seedlings have a hard time coming up through it.
Other then frost seeding we've always had better success with any kind of planting by planting in the fall/winter then in the spring.

 

[novatech]

There have been 2 things that have made a difference. The shortness of the grass and the timing of the frost seeding. Frost seeding has been reliable for us except one year when we didin;t get the freezing after the seed was broadcast. Clover has to be planted really shallow, when drilling it I've had better success with just sort of spreading the grass apart enough that the seed is touching the grond and pressed in firm contact with the soil then when I actually got it under the soil. But we have what could charitably be called "heavy" soil, It's clay that drys on the surface very quickly and seedlings have a hard time coming up through it.
Other then frost seeding we've always had better success with any kind of planting by planting in the fall/winter then in the spring.

I believe that the lack of sucess with a no till is because the seed is planted to deep. Most pastures are not smooth enough to use a no-till and have consistant depth. Given the proper weather conditions clover has a better chance of germinating on top of the ground. It will work itself into the ground to the proper depth, which is almost nothing, with initial good ground cantact. As dun said, short grass, ground contact, and timing.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I put in 64 acres of new seeding with an oats cover crop last spring. We had another dry summer so I plan to inter seed part of it to keep the weeds honest. I have a 3 point broadcaster and a JD drill press. I could also rent an NRCS no till drill. The low muck ends of the field are lawn thick with WC and the meadow fescue, the flat parts are OK, but the slopes and knobs are thin enough that you can see a lot of ground.

When broadcasting do you use a drag or a some kind of a packer to spread the grass and get ground contact?

Would scratching in a little festolium through the press drill while dropping clover through the grass box give better results than broadcasting clover?

 

[lucky7chief]

The best success we've had is with a 3 pt spreader while pulling a chain link harrow. We had to adjust the seeding rate to account for the overlap because our harrow is only 12 feet. It seems to work best when the ground is just a touch wet so the ground works up a little.

 

[dun]

Broadcast the clover over the bare ground in let february preferably on snow. If you don;t get a strange run off you should be in pretty good shape with the frost seeding. For a groundcover type process I would put down 7-8 pounds per acre. No experience with festulolium, nobody around here has even heard of it. I was gong to plant it as a test plot for one of the seed companys but the guy I was working with changed jobs so I never got to do it. For quick cover it's hard to beat annual ryegrass in the early spring

 

[skyline]

This year, I LIGHTLY disked to stir up some dirt, and then followed that with the broadcast and chain harrow in the same pass. I mixed crimson clover and Marshall ryegrass in the broadcaster. Did this around the first of October and I've got a very good stand of clover and ryegrass started. The best I've ever had. I think having the grass (bahai and coastal) really short and scratching it with the disk made a lot of difference for me this year.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I have seen chain link harrows advertised for deer plot seeding or landscaping, but not in use on a farm.

Every old timey dirt farmer here has a spike tooth harrow and spring tooth harrow which seem best suited to breaking down clods. I have tried using a spring tooth harrow after inter seeding but it plugged up or left piles of residue. The newer designs allow you to adjust tooth angle but the unit I borrowed is older than I am.

Sounds like the low dollar seeding approach would be a variable speed DC broadcasting system while dragging some chain link behind. Do you have any tips or size recommendation on making a chain link harrow for a 400 cc ATV or should I stick with the 3 point system?

 

[dun]

I have seen chain link harrows advertised for deer plot seeding or landscaping, but not in use on a farm.

Every old timey dirt farmer here has a spike tooth harrow and spring tooth harrow which seem best suited to breaking down clods. I have tried using a spring tooth harrow after inter seeding but it plugged up or left piles of residue. The newer designs allow you to adjust tooth angle but the unit I borrowed is older than I am.

Sounds like the low dollar seeding approach would be a variable speed DC broadcasting system while dragging some chain link behind. Do you have any tips or size recommendation on making a chain link harrow for a 400 cc ATV or should I stick with the 3 point system?

The drawback to dragging is the width of the boradcast area vs the width of a drag that is managable unless it's done in multiple passes, i.e. broadcast the whole thing then drag the whole thing. When I drag anything I use a 12' heavy gauge (1/4 inch) cattle panel and load it up with oak timbers or a set of heavy truck tires with individual chanis to a crossbar so the drag behind. Tires tend to bounce though if you hit any bunch grass or clumps.
If you have an old disk opener type of drill like the VanBrunts you can drill the clover then drag it at the same time.

 

[Stocker Steve]

When I drag anything I use a 12' heavy gauge (1/4 inch) cattle panel and load it up with oak timbers or a set of heavy truck tires with individual chains to a crossbar so the drag behind. Tires tend to bounce though if you hit any bunch grass or clumps.
If you have an old disk opener type of drill like the VanBrunts you can drill the clover then drag it at the same time.

I have a 12' drill w/ a tender hitch, a cattle panel, and a lot of timber. Sounds like I need to build a cross bar and then I am in business! :banana:

 

[novatech]

That chin link drag works great on cow pies too. You can double or triple on the width as the drag pretty easy to pull.

 

[4CTophand]

Have you seen different results with frost seeding vs. a no till drill?

Frost seeding isnt cost effective with a 25% survival rate
Check this out
http://hmc.orbis.net.nz/users/reese/ree ... /home.html
dont worry you can get these in the USA

 

[cross_7]

http://www.becknell.com/dealers/members ... n%2007.pdf

PAGE 07-18

 

[nap]

Here is another for chain harrows. http://www.eezs.com/product.php?Categor ... gory_Id=36. Free shipping on a number of them.

 

[hayray]

If you are interseeding into sod then I have had much better luck using a no-till drill as early as you can get into the field before spring green up. I did about 60 acres of interseeding medium red into grass sod last April and it worked really well in most areas.

 

[BeefmasterB]

My understanding is that, like Novatech mentioned, planting depth is critical just as is ground contact. Just tilling up the soil with a disc, broadcasting seed on the surface and then packing the heck out of it will often work very well! (referring to Clover here).
I picked up some rollers at an auction for just this purpose. About 6 feet long with a diameter of 24" and made of concrete. Pulled behind the tractor and in tandem.

Rye grass seed, on the other hand, comes up just about anywhere just by broadcasting.

Of course, without moisture, nothing will come up very well.

 

[mobgrazer]

As most have said grazing it short, spread it out, and pack it down works best. With clover go for a harder seed; if you let it seed out it will have a better chance of living to the cow pie stage to grow.

I make my cows spread it for me now that's its well established. I just mix half a pound in the minerals a few days before I want it on the ground but never did get the timing down to an art.