IMF or Marbling score?

[vclavin]

I was searching for health benefits of the higher quality grade cattle when I stumbled on an interesting article. Might keep this in mind for those that are trying to improve the carcass quality of their herds, especially if you are selling freezer beef.
Valerie

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5420/is_200802/ai_n24394719/

 

[vclavin]

Here it is. High quality beef - good for you!
Valerie

http://www.mymfn.com/?p=957

 

[SRBeef]

I was searching for health benefits of the higher quality grade cattle when I stumbled on an interesting article. Might keep this in mind for those that are trying to improve the carcass quality of their herds, especially if you are selling freezer beef.
Valerie

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5420/is_200802/ai_n24394719/

Valerie, the article you reference above also points out the fact that at current line speeds in many packer plants, marbling is not visually apparent and may need time to "bloom". So aging a carcass may have a major effect on the marbling grade, even with all else being equal.

I don't like to mention the word "veal" because of some negative associations with how it is raised. However veal as an example has very little visual marbling yet is tender and tasty, at least in my experience.

My own recent experience harvesting younger beef but which has had some corn is another example.

I have a very good butcher shop who processes some of my beef for my family use. This man is an expert and an artist with beef. Of the last group I brought to him, one was a bit older yearling and the others were my regular 15 mo olds. I asked him which was the "best" of these carcasses in his opinion. He immediately said the older animal becasue it had more visual marbling.

I took his word for it and used the beef from the older more marbled animal for a special occasion. At this time I also compared a similar cut from one of the younger, less visually marbled animals. Both carcasses had been aged two weeks. In my opinion the beef from the 15 month old was much better tasting and tender than the visually more marbled and few months older animal. Both were raised about the same.

So in this case even to an experienced butcher, the visual grading did not match the ultimate eating test. I know it is not very scientific but I do think we need to question the long accepted idea that visual marbling is THE way to judge beef quality. ESPECIALLY when just the simple act of letting a carcass hang for some time can change even the VISUAL evaluation of marbling....that tends to indicate it was there but just not visible. If something can be there but not visible, how can we say that visual is the way to grade a carcass, other than it is easy and convenient?

Thank you for the post. Jim

 

[vclavin]

Jim,
I had understood that they now use computers to scan and grade cattle in packing houses...do you know if this is true? Not sure at what point they do this, maybe after being in the hot house (cold, very cold room) and right before getting carcass ready for cutting?
I know hanging the meat makes it more tender, I had also understaood that the genetic potential to be tender would also be enhanced in the hanging process. Of the animals I've had dna tested, they range form +4 to +10 (10 is highest) . I have a freezer beef customer that swears our beef is more tender than another supplier they have bought from.... genetics? butcher? breed? .. just a compliment?
I do know the butcher shop uptown sells his own beef in his freezer case. I bought a roast when we were out of meat. I had no taste! Not sure the problem...grass fed? marbling? breed? don't know.
Valerie

 

[SRBeef]

Jim,
I had understood that they now use computers to scan and grade cattle in packing houses...do you know if this is true? Not sure at what point they do this, maybe after being in the hot house (cold, very cold room) and right before getting carcass ready for cutting?
I know hanging the meat makes it more tender, I had also understaood that the genetic potential to be tender would also be enhanced in the hanging process. Of the animals I've had dna tested, they range form +4 to +10 (10 is highest) . I have a freezer beef customer that swears our beef is more tender than another supplier they have bought from.... genetics? butcher? breed? .. just a compliment?
I do know the butcher shop uptown sells his own beef in his freezer case. I bought a roast when we were out of meat. I had no taste! Not sure the problem...grass fed? marbling? breed? don't know.
Valerie

In the CBS article you link to it says that the USDA graders are still visually grading. I read somewhere that ultrasound marbling numbers used on EPD's while better than nothing are still not very accurate. Jim

 

[vclavin]

Jim,
I had understood that they now use computers to scan and grade cattle in packing houses...do you know if this is true? Not sure at what point they do this, maybe after being in the hot house (cold, very cold room) and right before getting carcass ready for cutting?
I know hanging the meat makes it more tender, I had also understaood that the genetic potential to be tender would also be enhanced in the hanging process. Of the animals I've had dna tested, they range form +4 to +10 (10 is highest) . I have a freezer beef customer that swears our beef is more tender than another supplier they have bought from.... genetics? butcher? breed? .. just a compliment?
I do know the butcher shop uptown sells his own beef in his freezer case. I bought a roast when we were out of meat. I had no taste! Not sure the problem...grass fed? marbling? breed? don't know.
Valerie

In the CBS article you link to it says that the USDA graders are still visually grading. I read somewhere that ultrasound marbling numbers used on EPD's while better than nothing are still not very accurate. Jim

I've heard that as well... something like within 1% accuracy?
Valerie

 

[knabe]

kill them on friday, grade on monday.

 

[vclavin]

SRBeef,
Tha last 2 we butchered. The butcher was telling us which was the most tender by the way it sawed in half easy or not . The one he claimed was very tender, much more than the other carcass, he asked how much younger that tender carcassed animal was. He was surprised to find out that the 2 animals were only 2 days apart in age. As these 2 were fed side by side and raised together the whole time... I can only conclude that genetics and not age was responsible for the tenderness. Marbling about the same...we know how visual can be misleading but both were seen as hot carcass and within minutes of each other.
Valerie

 

[vclavin]

I forgot to add that they were both bulls about 15 months old. We rarely butcher steers as the bulls are much leaner and still very well marbled and tender.
Valerie

 

[dun]

The Simenthal tenderness EPD made a believer out of me. We buthered a pure angus and the meat was at best chewy, the next year we did a half Simmenthal out of the same cow. When you can vut round steak with a butter knife you KNOW it's tender. The bull was in something like the upper 10% of the breed for tenderness

 

[vclavin]

The Simenthal tenderness EPD made a believer out of me. We buthered a pure angus and the meat was at best chewy, the next year we did a half Simmenthal out of the same cow. When you can vut round steak with a butter knife you KNOW it's tender. The bull was in something like the upper 10% of the breed for tenderness

Sounds like the Angus didn't have good tenderness genetics!! One of my herd bulls is 10 out of 10 for tenderness DNA. It does not, however, always create a calf that is the same. Mom has to match up really good genetics as well. I don't think its the breed that makes it tender, just the type of muscling fibers and the dna test for tenderness - I hear - is very accurate.
Valerie
PS I eat mine with no teeth... steaks, roast, all of it...very tender!! and 75% to 100% Angus bulls to boot.

 

[dun]

The Simenthal tenderness EPD made a believer out of me. We buthered a pure angus and the meat was at best chewy, the next year we did a half Simmenthal out of the same cow. When you can vut round steak with a butter knife you KNOW it's tender. The bull was in something like the upper 10% of the breed for tenderness

Sounds like the Angus didn't have good tenderness genetics!! One of my herd bulls is 10 out of 10 for tenderness DNA. It does not, however, always create a calf that is the same. Mom has to match up really good genetics as well. I don't think its the breed that makes it tender, just the type of muscling fibers and the dna test for tenderness - I hear - is very accurate.
Valerie
PS I eat mine with no teeth... steaks, roast, all of it...very tender!! and 75% to 100% Angus bulls to boot.

That was the point, they need the genetics. Other then actaully eating them you have to have an accurate way of figuring if they have the genetics or not.

 

[vclavin]

Dun,
Sorry I missed your meaning...brain hasn't warmed up yet 16* outside for chores!!

What was the Simenthal tenderness EPD? That Angus must have been a negative tenderness EPD - lol.

I haven't seen any reference as to how high the number has to be for tenderness to be really noticed? Do you know what that number is?

Valerie

 

[Bonsman]

What about WBS? Can you have tender beef with less marbling? Texas A & M thinks you can.

http://www.smithbonsmara.com/uploads/beefquality.pdf

I use Igenity DNA markers. Looking at the tenderness marker on my last six animals tested: I had two with a 10, two with a 9, one 8, and one 7. I have only tested about thirty animals because my full-bloods are still small in numbers. I have been pleasantly surprised by the Igenity results. And yes, they are very tasty........just ask my vet. :secret:

Mike

 

[vclavin]

What about WBS? Can you have tender beef with less marbling? Texas A & M thinks you can.

http://www.smithbonsmara.com/uploads/beefquality.pdf

I use Igenity DNA markers. Looking at the tenderness marker on my last six animals tested: I had two with a 10, two with a 9, one 8, and one 7. I have only tested about thirty animals because my full-bloods are still small in numbers. I have been pleasantly surprised by the Igenity results. And yes, they are very tasty........just ask my vet. :secret:

Mike

Mike,
Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with WSB? what does that stand for?
I haven't read your article but it does make sense as the dna for tenderness is different for marbling. Marbling is fat deposition and tenderness is muscle development. I suppose if both are extremely close to "perfect" you would have a "melt in your mouth" piece of beef. LOL
Valerie

 

[dun]

Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with WSB? what does that stand for?
I haven't read your article but it does make sense as the dna for tenderness is different for marbling. Marbling is fat deposition and tenderness is muscle development. I suppose if both are extremely close to "perfect" you would have a "melt in your mouth" piece of beef. LOL
Valerie

Warner-Bratzler shear force. http://meat.tamu.edu/shearstand.html
The bulls Shr EPD was -10. That's based on the actual testing and not dna testing.

 

[Bonsman]

Valerie,

Warner Bratzler Shear values (WBS) is the amount of force needed to cut through a piece of beef, typically the rib eye area. The article explains it to some degree. Like all methods, WBS has its flaws. The ultimate test is how does it taste.

Mike

 

[vclavin]

Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with WSB? what does that stand for?
I haven't read your article but it does make sense as the dna for tenderness is different for marbling. Marbling is fat deposition and tenderness is muscle development. I suppose if both are extremely close to "perfect" you would have a "melt in your mouth" piece of beef. LOL
Valerie

Warner-Bratzler shear force. http://meat.tamu.edu/shearstand.html
The bulls Shr EPD was -10. That's based on the actual testing and not dna testing.

How do you get that test done?
Valerie

 

[vclavin]

Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with WSB? what does that stand for?
I haven't read your article but it does make sense as the dna for tenderness is different for marbling. Marbling is fat deposition and tenderness is muscle development. I suppose if both are extremely close to "perfect" you would have a "melt in your mouth" piece of beef. LOL
Valerie

Warner-Bratzler shear force. http://meat.tamu.edu/shearstand.html
The bulls Shr EPD was -10. That's based on the actual testing and not dna testing.

Looks like a lot of variables can change the test results.
Valerie

 

[vclavin]

Valerie,

Warner Bratzler Shear values (WBS) is the amount of force needed to cut through a piece of beef, typically the rib eye area. The article explains it to some degree. Like all methods, WBS has its flaws. The ultimate test is how does it taste.

Mike

University of Missouri geneticist states their DNA for tenderness is highly accurate. Seems they have been studying that particular trait quite a bit. I can only assume that a piece of meat can "taste" good and still be tuff.. maybe marbling keeps it from being as bad as shoe leather?
Valerie