If not Objective then who?

[vclavin]

Oldtimer,
Awesome pics. It's too bad the dam of your calf doesn't have a more complete EPD range. I guess she did a really good job without you knowing the rest. ;-)
How did you get you pic so big? Mine is so smal or it refuses to post- says too large.
Blessigns
Valerie Clavin

 

[vclavin]

My last test came in. He's clean !!
620627556
Not for heifers, hope I can find him a home. ratioed 114 weaning , adj. 779lbs. Ooops BW was 100lbs and ratioed 133 - eek! Throwbacks happen!! Born unassisted of course.

Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[sizmic]

9259,

I have a Bandolier son that I fully intend on using on my Retail Product son's daughters. I too feel that is a very good combination although I don't have any calves yet. The RP son is probably the best bull to ever walk our fields.

VClavin,
Forgive me but it sounds like you are trying to sell the EPD's and not the bull who owns them. Calving ease of a particular bull can only be determined when the first calves hit the ground. Carcass EPD's from ultrasound are totally subjective, that being said, I still ultrasound. If you want to know the truth, find a bull you like, breed him to every cow on the place, leave the bull calves that meet your criteria intact, steer the rest of them and retain ownership all the way to the rail(only 40% at most should be left intact). Then you will truly know what you are selling. As for the heifers from that same bull, keep 20% of them and repeat the same process above. You will probably make more money off the steers than you will the seedstock, per head, in dollars returned to the dam. If you don't, pick a different bull to use next year. I look at a bull I like and then I see if the EPD's meet what I am working for. Select dam and sire matings should only be done once you truly know what kind of animals you are mating, IMO.

I do not feel that selecting for carcass is a bad thing, I do it, I just choose to validate it with raw data, not computer screen data. Ambush 28 returns more $ to my cows than any other bull I have used, and my knife gets a pretty good workout.

Sizmic

 

[Northern Rancher]

I'll use a GT Max son out of Emulation 5522's full sister-he'd be 19 if he was alive today-he'll get our mature baldie cows. My Hereford bull at Genex F-R 552 Lad 20P will get our black cows and heifers and my 011 son will get the baldie heifers. We sell on a carcass grid and tese cattle have worked there for us for quite a number of years-nice not having to chase EPD's. They also all leave daughters that can get out and work for a living.

 

[JHH]

I'll use a GT Max son out of Emulation 5522's full sister-he'd be 19 if he was alive today-he'll get our mature baldie cows. My Hereford bull at Genex F-R 552 Lad 20P will get our black cows and heifers and my 011 son will get the baldie heifers. We sell on a carcass grid and tese cattle have worked there for us for quite a number of years-nice not having to chase EPD's. They also all leave daughters that can get out and work for a living.

What kind of bull for clean up? Just curious

 

[Northern Rancher]

We'll run that 011 bull and hopefully a Lad son-I just have to bear down and get one bought at Fraser's sale. My straight Hereford Lad daughters I'm going to breed to 8020. I'm a big fan of bulls I know work-our enviroment is too harsh to keep searching for something that numbers say should be better. We've sorted alot of purebreds over the years learnt the flavour of the spring doresn't work to well.

 

[Frankie]

Frankie,
Why not a second glance at 1680 sons? Just curious.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

WW and scrotal EPDs. Back then his WW EPD was 28. I see it's all the way up to 30 now. So much for unreliable EPDs on young bulls.

 

[vclavin]

I'll use a GT Max son out of Emulation 5522's full sister-he'd be 19 if he was alive today-he'll get our mature baldie cows. My Hereford bull at Genex F-R 552 Lad 20P will get our black cows and heifers and my 011 son will get the baldie heifers. We sell on a carcass grid and tese cattle have worked there for us for quite a number of years-nice not having to chase EPD's. They also all leave daughters that can get out and work for a living.

You sell on grid, mind sharing your carcass data? No one around here is able to get carcass data, unless you own the whole pen and I do not have enough for that. Cattle have to be sent north to Iowa for data, long ways from here. I have no choice but to use uyltrasound, I here it is very close to actual data.
I have several g ad gg daughters of GT max. Awesome growers. If I were to go AI a few angus to Hereford, which bull would you reccomend. Need low birth and carcass qualities - my choice, ok?
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[vclavin]

Frankie,
Why not a second glance at 1680 sons? Just curious.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

WW and scrotal EPDs. Back then his WW EPD was 28. I see it's all the way up to 30 now. So much for unreliable EPDs on young bulls.

Frankie,
I don't use bulls with -SC EPD's , good thing he was negative or I'd have had to test a whole lot more then I did. LOL, most ofhis sons were negative SC as well. Wouldn't you know I'd find one with good carcass and a + SC. Oh well, the ones I wanted to keep were free of the defects.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[Northern Rancher]

The Max son we use throws alot better females than the old GT Max bull did-there were definately some fertility issues with that line of cattle if you got them more than a few feet from the trough. Over the last several years we've averaged 90 plus percent AAA's-we had a few more Y3's than I'd like-but I can't afford to feed a cowherd that throws you all Y1's. Big hard doing cows can gobble up their calves carcass premiums pretty darn quick. A Y3 AAA isn't paid a premium any more so we'll be using more Hereford in years to come they'll improve yield a bit. I've always focused on building females-the feedlot deal has kind of taken care of itself. If you want a bull that calves use our Lad bull at Genex-his daughters are a condition score better than our straight Angus at any stage of the production cycle. The 1680 cattle weren't sound enough in my opinion to use-we have some Future Direction semen but we just feed out all the calves-he wasn't bad as a young bull but his wheels fell off as he aged.

 

[Herefords.US]

Since I've seen some posts on CT that want to attribute linebreeding or inbreeding as the cause of these genetic defects, I'm curious what the inbreeding coefficients are on the bulls that are at the root of these defects in Angus.

Anyone have that information?

George

P.S. HH Advance P242, reportedly the originator of the IE problem in Herefords, has 23% inbreeding coefficient. That percentage is pretty typical of most Line 1 Cattle.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Val here's a pic of the Lad bull out breeding cows-I wish A'I catalogues used these kind of pics.

 

[Northern Rancher]

This cow has probably produced the most carcass premiums of any I've had-for some reason she steers that grade Prime-Y1-they are a $14/cwt premium on the Cargill grid.

 

[vclavin]

Nice pictures, thank you. I'm hoping to decide by spring breeding. I may put the hereford on xbreeds, and may or may not get baldies. Not sure the red gene carriers. I have a red angus cow raises good calves that would hopefully give me a daughter. She's 10 this year. I have another 10 year that is black, but I know she is a red gene carrier as she came bred and 1st calf was red. The others are from 1/2 to high % angus. This is going to be fun!!
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

Not sure where the head went, it's on the original? - lol

Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[cleland]

Hearing lots of good things on LCC NES STANDARD. This bull has a great epd package, 6 frame, good musceling and high accuracies. Very balanced on phenotype and epds

 

[vclavin]

Hearing lots of good things on LCC NES STANDARD. This bull has a great epd package, 6 frame, good musceling and high accuracies. Very balanced on phenotype and epds

Cleland,
Thanks, I have several heifers from him and hoping for a surprise - in the right direction of course lol.
I have several that are out of Objective and putting LCC New Standard on these girls. We'll see.
BLessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[RD-Sam]

Hearing lots of good things on LCC NES STANDARD. This bull has a great epd package, 6 frame, good musceling and high accuracies. Very balanced on phenotype and epds

Cleland,
Thanks, I have several heifers from him and hoping for a surprise - in the right direction of course lol.
I have several that are out of Objective and putting LCC New Standard on these girls. We'll see.
BLessings
Valerie Clavin

You just said you don't use bulls with minus scrotal, New Standard has a minus scrotal. :???:

 

[vclavin]

I was told that a small negative (he's -.06) wouldn't hurt and Somewhere I think - or should have said - if the cow/heifer has a high enough +SC EPD herself, and the sire EPD's will help more than hurt, then yes, I'll use him. I've used Rito 6I6 which is -.32 I believe. Same goes for Fat, I rarely use a +Fat EPD unless the cow needs it. Sometimes You just have to take a chance. Right? I'm just trying to maintain fertility and I understand that watching SC EPD's will help in that area. Unfortunately, fertility is 10% inhereted ..hmmm. .. I guess in some cases that is good. lol
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[Brandonm22]

Since I've seen some posts on CT that want to attribute linebreeding or inbreeding as the cause of these genetic defects, I'm curious what the inbreeding coefficients are on the bulls that are at the root of these defects in Angus.

I don't think any sane geneticists are arguing that linebreeding CAUSES genetic defects at the DNA level. Linebreeding a bull will reveal genetic defects we would otherwise not have seen otherwise and it will concentrate those defects within a herd just like it concentrates the good genes that make a bull worth linebreeding to begin with.

 

[Brandonm22]

Unfortunately, fertility is 10% inhereted ..hmmm. .. I guess in some cases that is good. lol
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

Low heritability also means that when you get fertility problems within a line of cattle it is very very hard to breed out of that mistake in an acceptable period of time. There is no easy fix for that short of jettisoning the whole cow family.