If not Objective then who?

[vclavin]

What AI sires do you like? Mind telling me why? Obviously, we are going in different directions or have different needs for our herds.
Please tell me what you look for in the EPD's assuming phenotype fits your needs.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[HerefordSire]

What AI sires do you like? Mind telling me why? Obviously, we are going in different directions or have different needs for our herds.
Please tell me what you look for in the EPD's assuming phenotype fits your needs.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

I am crossing these two....

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 5A26242526

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 3&9=5C5A5E

I like a blue mark in each EPD category (see links).

 

[vclavin]

I am not familiar with Herefords. The last ones we owned were in early 1980's, we were lucky to have 350lb weaned calves at 11 months old. Those were non milkers! :lol: I see things have changed.
How well do Herefords marble compared to Angus? I know they have more Rib eye and muscle. We had thought about AI'ing some of the 3/4 and up Angus x's to Hereford. A Lady down south of us bought a Registered Angus bull from us out of Mtty for her Hereford Heifers. She sells black baldie heifers for $1200 bred. She has a REAL long waiting list.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[Frankie]

What AI sires do you like? Mind telling me why? Obviously, we are going in different directions or have different needs for our herds.
Please tell me what you look for in the EPD's assuming phenotype fits your needs.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

I'm not sure if this is aimed at me, or just a general question, but I'll answer. We'll have calves on the ground in January/February sired by Woodhill Foresight, Net Worth, Final Answer, Connection, Midland, and New Design 036 (last straw of him).

Why? Foresight & Net Worth: We like larger framed bulls because our bull customers like larger framed bulls. We've especially liked the thickness in the Foresight bulls and disposition. This will be our first Net Worth, but have seen several on test that did well. Midland has crossed very well with one particular cow in our herd, a Krugerrand of Donamere-EXT cow. So she was rebred to him. Connection & Final Answer are heifer bulls. I'm not happy with their frame, but we'll see how they work out on this group of heifers.

Yes, Foresight and Net Worth have a bit of BW, but our cows are pretty much breed average for BW, so we won't have any out of sight BW EPDs. Personally, BW EPDs of 0 is not a particular goal for us. As Robert said, Angus is a calving ease breed. Our experience with commercial bull buyers is that they tend to shy away from bulls with BW EPDs of 5 or higher, so we try to stay below that.

 

[HerefordSire]

I am not familiar with Herefords. The last ones we owned were in early 1980's, we were lucky to have 350lb weaned calves at 11 months old. Those were non milkers! :lol: I see things have changed.
How well do Herefords marble compared to Angus? I know they have more Rib eye and muscle. We had thought about AI'ing some of the 3/4 and up Angus x's to Hereford. A Lady down south of us bought a Registered Angus bull from us out of Mtty for her Hereford Heifers. She sells black baldie heifers for $1200 bred. She has a REAL long waiting list.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

Tell your lady friend to raise the price until she doesn't have a waiting list.

The sires I listed weaned about 900 average and close to 1,400 yearling average.

Herefords are catching up to Angus marbling.

 

[vclavin]

Frankie,
I'd really like to hear from anyone willing to share info. I have not tried the bulls you are referring to, I'll have to look them up. Are you getting good ultrasound data as well as the other AHIR data? Do you gather this info only on bulls or heifers too?
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

I've also noticed a bull that works better on one line or cow and not others.

 

[vclavin]

I am not familiar with Herefords. The last ones we owned were in early 1980's, we were lucky to have 350lb weaned calves at 11 months old. Those were non milkers! :lol: I see things have changed.
How well do Herefords marble compared to Angus? I know they have more Rib eye and muscle. We had thought about AI'ing some of the 3/4 and up Angus x's to Hereford. A Lady down south of us bought a Registered Angus bull from us out of Mtty for her Hereford Heifers. She sells black baldie heifers for $1200 bred. She has a REAL long waiting list.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

Tell your lady friend to raise the price until she doesn't have a waiting list.

The sires I listed weaned about 900 average and close to 1,400 yearling average.

Much better milkers? Or just better WW?YW? Are these calves on creep feed? What age were they weaned/ ADG.
Is the lower BW bull equal to the other in your opinion. I genuinely want to know. As I said before, I know nothing of Herefords or their EPD's.
A neighbor here started horned Herefords - don't like the ones he bought. I had heard that Herefords lost their butt when they took away the horns. Your pics look ok to me.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

Herefords are catching up to Angus marbling.

 

[Frankie]

Frankie,
I'd really like to hear from anyone willing to share info. I have not tried the bulls you are referring to, I'll have to look them up. Are you getting good ultrasound data as well as the other AHIR data? Do you gather this info only on bulls or heifers too?
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

I've also noticed a bull that works better on one line or cow and not others.

Yes, we report all the AHIR data. And, yes, we have the heifers ultrasounded. You just about have to to maintain carcass EPDs and buyers expect carcass EPDs. This will be the first year to have a Foresight heifer ultrasounded. So we'll see. The bulls are ultrasounded at the end of the test, but we have to report the data to AAA.

Net Worth and Final Answer are GENEX bulls (AAA #14739204 & 13592905). Foresight is an ABS bull. (13936986)

 

[vclavin]

Frankie,
May I ask what it is about these bulls that made you decide to use them?
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[RD-Sam]

If you research Foresight you will probably like what you see, he has good phenotype and carcass data. I had a heifer out of him this year that scanned a 6.03 on IMF, I was pretty happy with that.

036 is a good bull, despite what some of the bull bashers say, I have seen some really nice cows out of him that are top producers in herds.

 

[vclavin]

I don't like any of the 3 bulls, but I'm after different genetics than your. Same carcass just calving ease to boot.
15816021
15816020
Your honest opinion of these 2 bulls. Just scrutinize the EPD's as you are unable to see phenotype.
Thanks
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[Oldtimer]

Last year I AIed the heifers to N Bar Prime Time D806 ( moderate framed-calving ease and excells on udders and teats) and used two bulls I own- Whitney Creek Legacy 726T- 15800327 and Whitney Creek Bannon 730T - 15800329 both of which espouse the same qualities ....
This year I used OCC Magnitude on a few heifers I wanted to moderate frame on and add muscle (including one Objective daughter of my sons)-- and my bulls on the rest....
This summer I will probably use only my own bulls- after seeing the calves they produce...I may use Tender Ten on a few of the Bannon heifers....
My goal is to get back to the old maternal herd of cattle I had years ago that can survive the years of drought (which seems like every year :roll - and thrive in this shortgrass country on 9.75 inches of rain like we had this year- and winter on grass and hay without any other input... I overused the "performance" bulls- that left me heading for a trainwreck of bad udders, late calvers, and open too big framed cows....Now I'm trying to fix it...

 

[RD-Sam]

I don't like any of the 3 bulls, but I'm after different genetics than your. Same carcass just calving ease to boot.
15816021
15816020
Your honest opinion of these 2 bulls. Just scrutinize the EPD's as you are unable to see phenotype.
Thanks
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

I would be cautious about getting too lite on birth weights, and getting too far negative in $EN. Those Mytty calves are some pretty good eating. :lol2:

 

[Frankie]

I don't like any of the 3 bulls, but I'm after different genetics than your. Same carcass just calving ease to boot.
15816021
15816020
Your honest opinion of these 2 bulls. Just scrutinize the EPD's as you are unable to see phenotype.
Thanks
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

The only problem I have with the Phoenx bull is milk. In our conditions, we try to keep our milk EPD down. Hard to do these days.

I'm not an In Focus fan. Our limited experience with him is that he doesn't carry much muscle. But you'll find that sometimes with low birthweight bulls.

Without seeing the bulls, I don't see anything wrong with the pedigrees of the bulls, though we try not to stack calving ease on calving ease. Do you have actual performance information? BW, WW, YW? PM me if you want.....

 

[angus9259]

Some of the best calves I've seen are net worth. I think I'm going to try Foresight. I have some SVF Bandolier daughters I really like so I bought a Bandolier son out of a retail product dam - semen on him costs $1000 a straw. These are all muscle bulls. This year I have some Matrix heifers on the ground that look like they're going to be pretty good.

For heifers I've got BAR EXT traveler 205 and D806. Interesting thing about Bar EXT - Select Sires did something of a blind phenotype test on calves from a big cross section of their bulls and the best of group was Bar EXT.

 

[Frankie]

Some of the best calves I've seen are net worth. I think I'm going to try Foresight. I have some SVF Bandolier daughters I really like so I bought a Bandolier son out of a retail product dam - semen on him costs $1000 a straw. These are all muscle bulls. This year I have some Matrix heifers on the ground that look like they're going to be pretty good.

For heifers I've got BAR EXT traveler 205 and D806. Interesting thing about Bar EXT - Select Sires did something of a blind phenotype test on calves from a big cross section of their bulls and the best of group was Bar EXT.

We've liked our Foresight calves, though they are some of the heaviest born. The one we've sent through test didn't do especially well, but they all got sick on test. We used the same vaccination program that we've used for years, but every bull in that group got sick.

Is Retail Product a Select Sires bull? I've seen quite a few sons that I really liked by him. I don't think we have a SS distributor in this area.

 

[vclavin]

I don't like any of the 3 bulls, but I'm after different genetics than your. Same carcass just calving ease to boot.
15816021
15816020
Your honest opinion of these 2 bulls. Just scrutinize the EPD's as you are unable to see phenotype.
Thanks
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

I would be cautious about getting too lite on birth weights, and getting too far negative in $EN. Those Mytty calves are some pretty good eating. :lol2:

The only thing I don't like about Mtty is the high Fat EPD, I don't use him much. I have no problem with low birthweights, my girls are not the old problem with getting too small. We keep an eye on pelvic scores and have increased them over time. That's why we use the high gain with the low birth and watch the CED and CEM. It works for me, even the bulls have high pelvic scores.
$EN is no problem , the girls are always in 6-9 condition score. Doc said to put them on Jenny Craig -
They do not receive grain except 2 weeks before breeding for flushing purposes and in the evening 30 days before calving to prevent night births. (1-2lbs per head high fiber).

Calves are born anywhere from 60-92lbs with outliers of 48 and 100lbs. Average in the 80's. My ultrasound tech uses high birth bulls and complains about his calves being 40-50lbs.

Is that all you don't like - BW and $EN?

Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[vclavin]

The only problem I have with the Phoenx bull is milk. In our conditions, we try to keep our milk EPD down. Hard to do these days.

I'm not an In Focus fan. Our limited experience with him is that he doesn't carry much muscle. But you'll find that sometimes with low birthweight bulls.

Without seeing the bulls, I don't see anything wrong with the pedigrees of the bulls, though we try not to stack calving ease on calving ease. Do you have actual performance information? BW, WW, YW? PM me if you want.....

Frankie,
I don't like all that milk either, much prefer the calf gaining from ww genetics. But then, I do have a few cows that are a 6 for milk - I have always been told that milk is one of the hardest to increase and decrease.
My Focus girls are the widest of the pedigrees. My ultrasound guy says the same about Mtty - throws thin animals. That's what they said about 1407, but I do not have that problem with either bloodlines.
Yes, Lots of performance data on every animal on the farms. Crossbreeds and Registered alike.
Shall pm you. Thanks

Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[vclavin]

If you research Foresight you will probably like what you see, he has good phenotype and carcass data. I had a heifer out of him this year that scanned a 6.03 on IMF, I was pretty happy with that.

036 is a good bull, despite what some of the bull bashers say, I have seen some really nice cows out of him that are top producers in herds.

Sorry, Foresight misses on the CED, CEM and BW for my herd. All my bull buyers what calving ease.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[vclavin]

Last year I AIed the heifers to N Bar Prime Time D806 ( moderate framed-calving ease and excells on udders and teats) and used two bulls I own- Whitney Creek Legacy 726T- 15800327 and Whitney Creek Bannon 730T - 15800329 both of which espouse the same qualities ....
This year I used OCC Magnitude on a few heifers I wanted to moderate frame on and add muscle (including one Objective daughter of my sons)-- and my bulls on the rest....
This summer I will probably use only my own bulls- after seeing the calves they produce...I may use Tender Ten on a few of the Bannon heifers....
My goal is to get back to the old maternal herd of cattle I had years ago that can survive the years of drought (which seems like every year ) - and thrive in this shortgrass country on 9.75 inches of rain like we had this year- and winter on grass and hay without any other input... I overused the "performance" bulls- that left me heading for a trainwreck of bad udders, late calvers, and open too big framed cows....Now I'm trying to fix it...

Have you tried Rito 6I6? Awesome muscle maker and gentle creature. Really wide and well muscled butts. I have 1 heifer that marbled a 6+ out of him. He is a 6 frame.
I'll have to look up Magnitude and Tender Ten as I'm not familiar with them.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin