Ideas for changing times

[Starting late]

We all are facing higher input costs. I am just starting out in this Livestock, grass, pasture, hay farming at 42 years old, Starting Late, get it. Anyway, I am trying to learn from my Granpa's generation how to farm with less $$ input and more thought for the long term. Crop rotation, resting pastures, rotational grazing, etc. all will play a role. I have also learned much from the book "Five acres and independence" written I think about 1935. I have implemented some rotational grazing, intend to harrow in the fall to distribute manure, no-tilled rye into alfalfa and clover stands theoretically to utilize the nitrogen fixed by the legumes, etc. Next year I plan to take one less cutting off each hay field to preserve some nutrients. Once I get fences up I intend to run some young feeder calves on the hay fields to put weight on the calves and restore some nutrients to the hay fields. I am considering "sub soiling" some pasture to promote drainage. I have a 1 tooth sub-soiler that will rip down to about 2 1/2 feet. I am also curious about returning to more native plants, like Big Bluestem and Indian grass here in Central IL. What ideas and or experience do you all have in this method or other methods of controlling input costs?? Some of the older members should have several ideas from times when commercial fertilizers were not relied upon as heavily as they are now.

 

[Bez+]

We all are facing higher input costs. I am just starting out in this Livestock, grass, pasture, hay farming at 42 years old, Starting Late, get it. Anyway, I am trying to learn from my Granpa's generation how to farm with less $$ input and more thought for the long term. Crop rotation, resting pastures, rotational grazing, etc. all will play a role. I have also learned much from the book "Five acres and independence" written I think about 1935. I have implemented some rotational grazing, intend to harrow in the fall to distribute manure, no-tilled rye into alfalfa and clover stands theoretically to utilize the nitrogen fixed by the legumes, etc. Next year I plan to take one less cutting off each hay field to preserve some nutrients. Once I get fences up I intend to run some young feeder calves on the hay fields to put weight on the calves and restore some nutrients to the hay fields. I am considering "sub soiling" some pasture to promote drainage. I have a 1 tooth sub-soiler that will rip down to about 2 1/2 feet. I am also curious about returning to more native plants, like Big Bluestem and Indian grass here in Central IL. What ideas and or experience do you all have in this method or other methods of controlling input costs?? Some of the older members should have several ideas from times when commercial fertilizers were not relied upon as heavily as they are now.

How much ground are we talking about? It will temper my answers greatly.

Full time or hobby subsidized by a job?

Less than 50 acres and I say you will do better with sheep or goats - cows / calves are not as efficient at utilizing graze while YOU keep the COSTS down as per your own writing.

Why you want to rip the ground - expensive and usually not necessary for subsistance farming. There are ways around it.

Ground size will also tell me whether your plan will allow you to profit or hobby the farm.

Market area and plans for selling?

Do not ignore chickens, turkey and believe it or not - duck and geese.

In truth the cow is probably the least efficient and provides the smallest cash flow - a very poor investment for a small operator - and only provides a one time cash input from sale.

The vast majority of people on this board have no idea what it costs to raise a calf to a cow - they do not care. You need to think in dollars and pennies - it is a business - run your pencil over everything.

If you truly want to farm you need to think cash flow - so toss the cows and go with goats or sheep - chickens and maybe some free range pigs.

Your Grandad did not use a lot of machinery - already I can see a bunch of ways to cut your costs - you have too much in your machinery plans.

Lots of folks will tell you I am full of schitzen on this - but you want to use the land - so be sure to look at a cow or calf as the last option - it could die one week before market and you are out a year of cash flow and still have a year of expenses to pay out.

Lose 10% of your chickens and you still have a cash flow.

Do you want continual cash flow - like your Grandad?

Or do you plan to hobby? In which none of the above matters because you will spend for the sake of a life style.

Lots more - but I will wait for now.

Bez+

 

[hillrancher]

I have some first hand experience with the type of farming you are trying to do. If you are hobby farming it will work.
Land cost is too expensive to start out fresh. You will drag your land down until it will only raise weeds.
It take 2 to 4 time the acres to make enough to exist if you are depending on the farm to make a living. Native grasses do not produce as good as well maintained other grass. Native grasses will die out if fertilized to make them produce. Those days have already been lived an just will not fit in today's economy.

 

[Stocker Steve]

The experts tell us to do a "gross margin analysis" on each part of the operation. A fancy phrase for subtracting direct cost from revenue to see where/if where the profit potential is. The trick is knowing how and where to leverage underutilized resources in your specific area vs. reducing costs vs. increasing production volume.
In my area the most consistent gross margin/acre is making meadow hay like Grandpa did. This year the highest GM with conventional crops was raising small grain. A legume/grain rotation with some purchased in hay (and manure) makes sense for central Minnesota. Semi retired dairy farmers seem to love making and selling hay.
The best GM per head is by direct marketing meat. Poultry seems to be the easier to sell than beef. The second best GM per head is by grazing rented pasture. Pastures are getting harder to rent as land is purchased for deer hunting. Not everyone can or will work with customers and land lords on these types operations.
Mob grazing or high density stocking is an idea that is getting a lot of press right now. My experiments improved the appearance of the pasture but reduced ADG. I think I needed to make more paddock shifts.
The interesting thing in both crop and livestock operations is that marketing you and your products (not production) seems to be the biggest profit driver. Just look at the grain price swings, rented vs. deeded land costs, and the commodity vs. direct marketed meat prices...

 

[novatech]

Well to start with I may have missed something but I could not find where he was going to try and make a living on this place. He just wants some info on low input farming.
The way grandpa did it was to have a variety of stock, and a variety of forage. The pasture was made up of different types of native grasses.and not only cool season legumes,clover, but also warm season legumes. He planted cow peas and alfalfa. You may try researching legumes for your area. Illinois Bundle Flower is one. There are a lot of low input native and naturalized grasses that will do well. Bahia and bluestem, Indian grass,and eastern gamma are some. A good place to see what will do well is abandoned pastures and along the road side.
Keep in mind that low input also means low stocking rate.
It's better to make money on a few than loose you A__ on a bunch.

 

[Jogeephus]

What the old timers did here long ago was to let the cows fend for themselves. They would turn them in the woods and let them forage on whatever they could find. Once a year they would gather the animals up and sell whatever was big enough to sell. No controlled breeding season, no fertilizer, no fences, no vet bills, no pushing the pencil to maximize gain. Just took what the year gave them. Applying this to my situation would be hard but I could see my input cost drop considerably if I dropped my stocking rate.

 

[dun]

What the old timers did here long ago was to let the cows fend for themselves. They would turn them in the woods and let them forage on whatever they could find. Once a year they would gather the animals up and sell whatever was big enough to sell. No controlled breeding season, no fertilizer, no fences, no vet bills, no pushing the pencil to maximize gain. Just took what the year gave them. Applying this to my situation would be hard but I could see my input cost drop considerably if I dropped my stocking rate.

If you do it that way all you need to do is find a market for those 4 weight weaned calves. That was about the weaning weight of "good" calves back in the 50s when we did it that way

 

[wstevenl]

Go to amazon.com and look up Joel Salatin
If you search google for videos you can find some of his talks, but his books have more information. All his ideas are low input and direct marketing of meat or eggs.

 

[Bluestem]

All good posts.
I would add- Raise goats for money, cattle for respect.
I like the native grasses. Feel they get the short end of the stick most of the time. Bet it has something to do with money. Like how we can get yours. With that said. The natives require management. If the only fence you have is a perimeter fence, natives are not for you. If you don't walk or horseback, your pastures every once in a while natives aren't for you. If you don't have the time to get them established, they aren't for you. I could go on, but you get the point.
Think Diversity, from the soil up.

 

[Starting late]

All good replies, thanks. I work full time, this is only my second year. 40 Head of cattle total, 10 older Hereford cows, Angus bull, 2 Black white faced 2 year old cows, 3 heifers will calve in Oct., 2 more heifers will be bred in Jan., the rest are either steers being fattened or calves. I direct market my meat and get a minimum of $1.15 lb live weight. 60 acres of old fescue pasture currently in use, fertilized and productive with clover and some native legumes, rye seeded end of August both for grazing and baling. about 20 Acres of hayground already established. I bought 30 head of cattle from neighbor and agreed to pay him over 3 years no interest. Last payment will be next April. All equipment is paid for. I don't see a market for goats or sheep yet in my area. Fear Coyotes would eat all the lambs. My parents had about 20 sheep here one time just to keep the pasture grazed, coyotes loved it and ate EVERY lamb. I am just trying to make the cattle efficient enough to pay their own way and cover the cost of operation and maybe pay for a hay and equipment shed built with used material. I am considering getting into grain farming with older, less expensive equipment in about 3 or 4 years. I would pay cash as I go and carry no debt. Let me know what advice or thought you all have about that plan and those goals.

 

[Starting late]

I forgot to mention. I have another 45 acres of pasture available at no cost. It is fenced, I just need to run the fence, make any repairs and turn the livestock in there. My current plan is to increase the herd slowly to about 40 head of producing breed cows, fatten 15 steers a year and sell 25 calves a year. $12,000 for calves at 500 lbs each and 15 steers would return about $17000. Expenses would be $2,000 year for fuel, $1,000 for wire, twine, bale wraps, $4,000 feed, $2,500 for fencings, water, feed bunks, etc., $1,000 cash rent for land, $1,000 for seed, $2,500 for fertilizer, $600 misc. gloves, boots, etc. Total expenses $14,600. Reciepts $29,000. $14,400 profit. If I can trim expenses some, do some custom work for neighbors, sell some hay, etc. maybe I could profit $20,000 a year. I have a chance to farm about 250 acres for reasonable cash rent. If I could profit $100 an acre on grain crops I could make another $25,000 there, IF all the equipment is older, smaller equipment and I pay cash for it. I started this enterprise aobut 7 years ago with 0 dollars by hauling iron for a friend, bought some cars and trucks repaired them and sold them, then bought and sold tractors and implement for a couple of years. From $0 I now own 40 head of stock, all my hay equipment, 2 tractors, etc. Everything is paid for (including 4x4 truck, Kawi mule, etc.). I could turn a bigger profit doing what I was doing before, but I enjoy the cattle and don't NEED the money to live on. I have a good job at the Post Office. Farming has been great for my wife and 2 sons, we love the life. I just want to make enough to be able to keep farming, and some day to be able to leave some equipment, a few old cows, and some land to my sons. I think it beats laying on the couch watching sports, sitting in the tavern, or chasing skirts.