We have had an abortion storm (30% loss so far) in our closed herd. We have never vaccinated for IBR and are not aware of it in our immediate area. We were advised by our vet to vaccinate our heifer calves with MLV vaccine when we weaned to begin a vaccination program. She was aware that the calves would have a common fence and waterer to the naive cows but did not mention that this would be a concern. We now have sent aborted fetus and placenta for autopsy and it has come back positive for IBR. Is it possible that we infected our own herd of cows by vaccinating the calves. Cannot figure out how we got it if this was not the case. Any ideas or opinions on this one? Thank you for your time
IBR Abortion Storm in Naive Herd
- Thread starter CowLover
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Sounds plausible to me. A MLV vacinated calf nursing a un vaccinated cow can cause abortions. Dont' know what kind of bodily fluids exposure it takes to do it
If it works like chlamydia, exposure to the fluids or the aborted tissue will cause others to abort.
If it works like chlamydia, exposure to the fluids or the aborted tissue will cause others to abort.
inyati13
Well-known member
I have used Bovi-Shield Gold FP 5 L5 by pfizer (MLV for IBR) on heifers that were weaned and separated from the other cows. I had the same concern because this has been a topic on Cattle Today. What vaccine did you use? I would be very interested to know. Pfizer states that the MLV could result in an abortion if it is given to a pregnant cow that had NOT previously been exposed to the MLV or giving it to a calf that is still nursing a pregnant cow where the cow had NOT previously been exposed to the MLV. You certainly have to consider the possibility that the MLV vaccine caused your outbreak but that would be tough to demonstrate. I would call the drug company and see what they say. I was concerned when I used the MLV since the virus is still alive but modified to be non-virulent. The process could be imperfect enough to allow a few virulent organisms to slip through. If Lucky_P (Veterinarian Pathologist) reads this thread, this may be right up his alley. I would appreciate hearing what you find out. Thanks.
PS If you want to call Pfizer and you are in the USA 800-366-5288, This is for their animal health service.
PS If you want to call Pfizer and you are in the USA 800-366-5288, This is for their animal health service.
There's very few cows out there that are not positive already for IBR (it's a herpes virus - herpes is "forever"). The goal with vaccination is simply to prevent it from rearing its head and causing clinical disease. I've seen operations were all animals were (tested) IBR negative, but it takes work - eg calves raised on bottles and separated from adult animals, and no transfer of machinery etc between positive and negative areas. How closed is your herd? eg, do the animals ever share a fenceline with neighboring cattle? did you raise all the animals in the herd? if some of your cattle were purchased animals they likely were vaccinated as calves. How long has the herd been closed?
Which MLV did you use? if you're concerned about the vaccine being responsible, try calling the vaccine company and talking to them about it. Some will pay for diagnostic testing if there's a concern that their vaccine was the culprit.
Which MLV did you use? if you're concerned about the vaccine being responsible, try calling the vaccine company and talking to them about it. Some will pay for diagnostic testing if there's a concern that their vaccine was the culprit.
Thank you to you all for your responses! We are overwhelmed by the devastating loss in the open cows and worried that there may still be losses.
We are in Canada and used Pyramid FP 5 + Presponse SQ. Not sure if that is the same as Bovi-Shield Gold FP 5 L5 by pfizer. Our vet was well aware that our cows had never received a vaccination for IBR and we feel she should have warned us against using MLV in such close proximity to the cows.
We have purchased some cattle over the years, mostly bulls but there were no new cattle introduced to the herd since the bulls in June 2012. We did purchase 20 bred heifers in January 2012 and not one of those aborted in the abortion storm. We vaccinated the heifer calves on December 2. On Feb 3 when we preg checked the same vet recommended to vaccinate with Triangle 4 +Type II BVD which we did without any complications that we noticed. At the time of preg check we knew we had had abortions but were shocked by the number and two autopsies had been sent in but no data back yet.
I keep very detailed records on our herd even tho they are a commercial beef herd. When I look at the group that aborted I notice that a vast majority were home raised cows that were born in 2009. Any ideas on why this would be? They also were our younger and best producing cows!
We are in Canada and used Pyramid FP 5 + Presponse SQ. Not sure if that is the same as Bovi-Shield Gold FP 5 L5 by pfizer. Our vet was well aware that our cows had never received a vaccination for IBR and we feel she should have warned us against using MLV in such close proximity to the cows.
We have purchased some cattle over the years, mostly bulls but there were no new cattle introduced to the herd since the bulls in June 2012. We did purchase 20 bred heifers in January 2012 and not one of those aborted in the abortion storm. We vaccinated the heifer calves on December 2. On Feb 3 when we preg checked the same vet recommended to vaccinate with Triangle 4 +Type II BVD which we did without any complications that we noticed. At the time of preg check we knew we had had abortions but were shocked by the number and two autopsies had been sent in but no data back yet.
I keep very detailed records on our herd even tho they are a commercial beef herd. When I look at the group that aborted I notice that a vast majority were home raised cows that were born in 2009. Any ideas on why this would be? They also were our younger and best producing cows!
Pyramid FP 5 + Presponse is a MLV by Boehringer Ingelheim, not Pfizer. Similar product however (eg similar label). There have been abortions in pregnant animals directly vaccinated with a MLV IBR vaccine, however, I'm not aware of any reported cases where a cattle aborted after fenceline contact. It would be interesting if so but I don't think I'd blame the vet for this one - there haven't been any reports out there indicating the fenceline contact could be a problem. Your best bet is to call the company. BIVI has been great to talk with in my experience and I suspect they'd be interested in knowing if their vaccine was involved. Call and tell them what the situation is - or have your vet call. Sometimes credentials help. ;-)
So the calves were vaccinated Dec 2nd and cows were preg checked Feb 3rd. When did the abortions start? IBR abortions are pretty predictable.
Re the home raised cows ~ in an ideal world, you'd get serum (blood samples) for reproductive/respiratory disease testing on all cows that had aborted and a few that hadn't, and send the samples to a diagnostic lab to evaluate titers. It may be that the home-raised 2009 cattle have something else making them more susceptible to disease. BVD-PI animals? different sire that wasn't used in any other year, eg immunologic defect? The 2012 purchases were probably vaccinated (or had the virus) before you bought them, and they were not naive - the most dangerous situation in a livestock operation is a naive herd - which is why they were not affected.
The other possibility is that something else came up that stressed the cows (eg weaning calves off the 2012 purchases) and the herpes virus the 2012 purchases (may) have been carrying "reactivated" when they were stressed, and they shed the virus - infecting your naive animals. The abortion storm may not be related to vaccination of the heifer calves at all.
So the calves were vaccinated Dec 2nd and cows were preg checked Feb 3rd. When did the abortions start? IBR abortions are pretty predictable.
Re the home raised cows ~ in an ideal world, you'd get serum (blood samples) for reproductive/respiratory disease testing on all cows that had aborted and a few that hadn't, and send the samples to a diagnostic lab to evaluate titers. It may be that the home-raised 2009 cattle have something else making them more susceptible to disease. BVD-PI animals? different sire that wasn't used in any other year, eg immunologic defect? The 2012 purchases were probably vaccinated (or had the virus) before you bought them, and they were not naive - the most dangerous situation in a livestock operation is a naive herd - which is why they were not affected.
The other possibility is that something else came up that stressed the cows (eg weaning calves off the 2012 purchases) and the herpes virus the 2012 purchases (may) have been carrying "reactivated" when they were stressed, and they shed the virus - infecting your naive animals. The abortion storm may not be related to vaccination of the heifer calves at all.
inyati13
Well-known member
Cowlover, you are having some bad luck. I hope it changes. Here is what I am hearing. You introduced a Bull in June 2012. You introduced 20 bred heifers in January 2012. The original post stated your herd is closed but you better rethink that. It was opened to what ever those 21 animals brought in. You noted that none of the 20 introduced bred heifers aborted. That suggests that they originated in programs that administer some form of IBR vaccination. Your cattle that were not vaccinated suffered the most from however the virus was introduced. Could have been the MLV vaccine or it could have been the 21 animals that carried the virus in and your existing herd not being vaccinated had no immunity to resist it. Your vet probably could have helped you more; that is what they are suppose to be trained and educated to do, but as you know, it is you that has to take care of ole number one. I always tell my nieces and nephews that being selfish is not as bad as society makes it out to be because if you cannot take care of yourself there is nothing else in the whole world that you can take care of.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Sounds like a bad trainwreck. So many possibilities, with the introduced bulls and purchased heifers - and the vaccinated weanlings. Any fence-to-fence contact with other cattle?
All the current mlv vaccines caution against vaccinating calves nursing pregnant dams which have not been appropriately vacccinated within the past year. It's a standard CYA caution, as viral shedding by vaccinated calves is virtually nonexistent; can vaccinated calves shed virus and infect naive cows? It's possible, but unlikely - relatively small numbers in this study, but it's fairly 'telling' - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12762386
Cows/heifers here on our place are not vaccinated with any of the viral agents - unless they're not being retained; only feeder steers/heifers get the respiratory viral vaccines. We used a dose of Bovi-Shield Gold 1 month prior to weaning, then a booster at weaning for several years - no issues, and those calves were still nursing their pregnant dams following the initial dose. A couple of years back, we switched to a dose of Inforce-3 intranasal two weeks prior to weaning with a booster of BoviShield at weaning.
Yes, I was aware that the possibility of viral shedding was there, but so unlikely that it didn't deter me from using the mlv vaccines in nursing calves.
Prevalence of IBR varies from one area to another. We see very little IBR in western KY/TN at our laboratory - Elsewhere, it's a major pathogen. We may go 5 year or more at a stretch without detecting IBR in cattle with respiratory disease and have seen only one IBR abortion in the past 15+ years here.
All the current mlv vaccines caution against vaccinating calves nursing pregnant dams which have not been appropriately vacccinated within the past year. It's a standard CYA caution, as viral shedding by vaccinated calves is virtually nonexistent; can vaccinated calves shed virus and infect naive cows? It's possible, but unlikely - relatively small numbers in this study, but it's fairly 'telling' - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12762386
Cows/heifers here on our place are not vaccinated with any of the viral agents - unless they're not being retained; only feeder steers/heifers get the respiratory viral vaccines. We used a dose of Bovi-Shield Gold 1 month prior to weaning, then a booster at weaning for several years - no issues, and those calves were still nursing their pregnant dams following the initial dose. A couple of years back, we switched to a dose of Inforce-3 intranasal two weeks prior to weaning with a booster of BoviShield at weaning.
Yes, I was aware that the possibility of viral shedding was there, but so unlikely that it didn't deter me from using the mlv vaccines in nursing calves.
Prevalence of IBR varies from one area to another. We see very little IBR in western KY/TN at our laboratory - Elsewhere, it's a major pathogen. We may go 5 year or more at a stretch without detecting IBR in cattle with respiratory disease and have seen only one IBR abortion in the past 15+ years here.
Thank you all for the brain storming. I must admit that I knew very little abt IBR, other that advertising and vet's talking abt it. In 30 years of ranching this is the first time I have heard of a positive test in our area.
I have been trying to educate myself a bit and have found a lot of info on youtube under "CattleTalk" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPXv1SbC ... eJeK4E3MYg
Upon closer look at a vaccine bottle for the Pyramid FP5 is does say "This vaccine may be used in pregnant cows or calves nursing pregnant cows provided the cows were vaccinated pre-breeding, according to label instructions...." Fine time for me to read the fine print. lol What got me thinking it was the MLV vaccination that we had given to the replacement heifers was the following article http://cattletoday.info/ibr.htm where it talks about how it may affect pregnant cattle that are in contract but have not been vaccinated.
To answer Milkmaid, the first aborted fetus we found was January 26 and we immediately submitted it for autopsy. We also sent two more and a placenta that appeared on Feb 1. The only other evidence we had found of abortions prior to that was blood in the snow which made us suspicious.
I have read more about IBR becoming "reactivated". I did not realize this could happen! This is why I did not feel it could have been from the heifers or bulls that were purchased. I thought that if they had brought it with them then the unvaccinated cows would have been infected then. Thank you for bringing this to my attention!
inyati13, you are so right in that we need to look out for ourselves! Live and Learn! We are in the process of contacting the previous owner of the 20 heifers to what vaccines they used. With my limited knowledge, and all the dangerous "internet" knowledge (lol) I am wondering if IBR is being brought in to our community with vaccines! You are also right that I retract the term "closed" herd. I meant that it was closed at the time of what I believe was the infection, that there were no new cattle brought in at that time.
Lucky_P, Our cattle do share common fences with our neighbors cattle and pre-breeding and post-breeding are in a community pasture with a minimum of five other herds. They have been at home since November tho with no contact with these other cattle and will remain there until May 15. You mention that there is little incidence of IBR in your area, does that mean that everyone vaccinates?
Our vet is coming to see us tomorrow with the full autopsy results and the research that she has been doing. We are unsure as to what our next steps will be and what we would recommend to our neighbors who also have naive herds.
If you have a chance to look at the cattletoday youtube videos I would love to hear your views.
I have been trying to educate myself a bit and have found a lot of info on youtube under "CattleTalk" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPXv1SbC ... eJeK4E3MYg
Upon closer look at a vaccine bottle for the Pyramid FP5 is does say "This vaccine may be used in pregnant cows or calves nursing pregnant cows provided the cows were vaccinated pre-breeding, according to label instructions...." Fine time for me to read the fine print. lol What got me thinking it was the MLV vaccination that we had given to the replacement heifers was the following article http://cattletoday.info/ibr.htm where it talks about how it may affect pregnant cattle that are in contract but have not been vaccinated.
To answer Milkmaid, the first aborted fetus we found was January 26 and we immediately submitted it for autopsy. We also sent two more and a placenta that appeared on Feb 1. The only other evidence we had found of abortions prior to that was blood in the snow which made us suspicious.
I have read more about IBR becoming "reactivated". I did not realize this could happen! This is why I did not feel it could have been from the heifers or bulls that were purchased. I thought that if they had brought it with them then the unvaccinated cows would have been infected then. Thank you for bringing this to my attention!
inyati13, you are so right in that we need to look out for ourselves! Live and Learn! We are in the process of contacting the previous owner of the 20 heifers to what vaccines they used. With my limited knowledge, and all the dangerous "internet" knowledge (lol) I am wondering if IBR is being brought in to our community with vaccines! You are also right that I retract the term "closed" herd. I meant that it was closed at the time of what I believe was the infection, that there were no new cattle brought in at that time.
Lucky_P, Our cattle do share common fences with our neighbors cattle and pre-breeding and post-breeding are in a community pasture with a minimum of five other herds. They have been at home since November tho with no contact with these other cattle and will remain there until May 15. You mention that there is little incidence of IBR in your area, does that mean that everyone vaccinates?
Our vet is coming to see us tomorrow with the full autopsy results and the research that she has been doing. We are unsure as to what our next steps will be and what we would recommend to our neighbors who also have naive herds.
If you have a chance to look at the cattletoday youtube videos I would love to hear your views.
inyati13
Well-known member
Cowlover, I am not in western KY where Lucky_P is located but I am in KY probably 200 miles east of Lucky_P. I have not had any aborted calves in the short time I have been raising cattle but because I am putting a herd together from multiple sources, I decided to use a MLV vaccine not just for IBR but for BVD Type 1 and 2, BRSV and PI3. I selected Bovi-Shield Gold because it came recommended on the thread I started here on CT. I am using it at the current time on open heifers but would like all my cows vaccinated with a MLV vaccine. Last week I released a heifer that just calved back into the herd and I had vaccinated her. Keep in mind that your vet who rocommended Pyramid FP 5 + Presponse SQ may have done so not based on the incidence of IBR but because the other virals included.
I looked at the YouTube and that is really cause for concern. It gives me the impression that MLV vaccine for IBR should not be used in a breeding program. Now the gentlemen represents a drug company other than Pfizer which is a leader in the MLV vaccine so take it with a grain of salt. I do know that I have followed Pfizer's instructions and several posters mentioned they use the MLV. But the shedding of attenuated virus according to him is not worth the risk. Please tell us what the vet says to you after their research. Thanks.
I am following the directions on the pamplet inside the vaccine box very closely. I will trust that Pfizer has enough research behind their product that the vaccine does not cause a problem rather than prevent it. I should probably call the # I provided to you (take my own advise, hey) and see just how safe the vaccine is as far as introducing the virus.
PS I would like to hear from milkmaid/Lucky_P on this issue. I vaccinate a heifer that just calved with a MLV (as I mention above), turn her back into the herd and her calf nurses another cow even for a few seconds. The MLV although it is modified to be non-virulent, could it cause a problem in a pregnant cow it nurses? Wouldn't that be the similiar scenario to vaccinating a calf on a cow that had not been exposed to the MLV vaccine. Seems like these MLV carry some risk!!!
I looked at the YouTube and that is really cause for concern. It gives me the impression that MLV vaccine for IBR should not be used in a breeding program. Now the gentlemen represents a drug company other than Pfizer which is a leader in the MLV vaccine so take it with a grain of salt. I do know that I have followed Pfizer's instructions and several posters mentioned they use the MLV. But the shedding of attenuated virus according to him is not worth the risk. Please tell us what the vet says to you after their research. Thanks.
I am following the directions on the pamplet inside the vaccine box very closely. I will trust that Pfizer has enough research behind their product that the vaccine does not cause a problem rather than prevent it. I should probably call the # I provided to you (take my own advise, hey) and see just how safe the vaccine is as far as introducing the virus.
PS I would like to hear from milkmaid/Lucky_P on this issue. I vaccinate a heifer that just calved with a MLV (as I mention above), turn her back into the herd and her calf nurses another cow even for a few seconds. The MLV although it is modified to be non-virulent, could it cause a problem in a pregnant cow it nurses? Wouldn't that be the similiar scenario to vaccinating a calf on a cow that had not been exposed to the MLV vaccine. Seems like these MLV carry some risk!!!
I'm in between classes at the moment so will say more later when I have time, but real quick; a herd that shares a fenceline with neighboring cattle, runs with multiple other herds owned by other people, and introduces purchased bulls/youngstock to the herd... is not a naive or closed herd.
That said, the time frame is in the right range for IBR abortions. Update us with what your veterinarian says.
That said, the time frame is in the right range for IBR abortions. Update us with what your veterinarian says.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Agree wholeheartedly with milkmaid's recommendation to alert BI about your problem - they'll want to know; I've had occasion to work hand-in-hand with field-service folks from some of the major biologics manufacturers on cases where there were concerns about 'vaccine failures', etc.
I'm certain that there have been instances in the past, where vaccinated calves nursing naive dams were determined to be the source of virus in an abortion storm. Advances in selection of or attenuation of vaccine strains likely have diminished this potential - and the MU study I linked in the previous post suggests that viral shedding by vaccinated calves is minimal to nonexistant - at least for that (unnamed) mlv product used; no seroconversion was seen in seronegative pregnant cows pastured with the vaccinated calves.
Personally, I would be slightly surprised at across-fence transmission, but it's not out of the realm of possibility, and the timeframe certainly calls it into question.
I am not a virologist, so cannot comment on whether or not vaccine-strain IBR, BVD, etc., can be readily differentiated from 'field' strains of virus. That may or may not be possible, and may depend upon the laboratory working with the isolates.
I seriously doubt that the low incidence of IBR infections we see in our service area is due to widespread vaccination. Most beef herds here are small - folks 'have cattle' because they have a little piece of land - and my assessment, based on experience, is that few in this area do much in the way of vaccination.
However, my sample is 'biased', as all I see are the cases that actually are submitted to the diagnostic laboratory - there may be more IBR out there, but I don't see it or receive calls from veterinary practitioners who are suspecting it. Have seen a couple of IBR respiratory disease cases every couple of years, since about 2007, but before that, we went well over a decade without ever finding IBR in a pneumonic animal, aborted fetus, nasal wash, lung sample, etc.
If you have fence-to-fence contact with other cattle, or co-mingle, as you indicated, in a 'community' pasture, then you do not truly have a 'closed' herd. Sounds pretty 'wide-open' to me...
Something to consider in the future would be the use of the temperature-sensitive intranasal vaccines as an initial step in your vaccination protocol - the viral strains utilized in those vaccines are only able to survive in the cooler temperatures of the nasal cavity, and cannot infect internal tissues, such as the lungs, uterus/placenta, etc.
So far as I'm aware, Nasalgen, TSV-2 , and Inforce-3 are essentially safe for use in calves nursing pregnant cows - but the manufacturers may still give a label caution against it - and if they do so, I wouldn't recommend a client or producer use them in inadequately vaccinated cows.
Edit: There I went, shooting off my mouth again, without checking things out fully.
The intranasal containing BVD may not still be on the market - it really wasn't all that 'new' - and I was unaware that there were any intranasal products containing BVD still on the market; but, looking at label instructions, it is/was not recommended for use in calves nursing pregnant cows.
I'm certain that there have been instances in the past, where vaccinated calves nursing naive dams were determined to be the source of virus in an abortion storm. Advances in selection of or attenuation of vaccine strains likely have diminished this potential - and the MU study I linked in the previous post suggests that viral shedding by vaccinated calves is minimal to nonexistant - at least for that (unnamed) mlv product used; no seroconversion was seen in seronegative pregnant cows pastured with the vaccinated calves.
Personally, I would be slightly surprised at across-fence transmission, but it's not out of the realm of possibility, and the timeframe certainly calls it into question.
I am not a virologist, so cannot comment on whether or not vaccine-strain IBR, BVD, etc., can be readily differentiated from 'field' strains of virus. That may or may not be possible, and may depend upon the laboratory working with the isolates.
I seriously doubt that the low incidence of IBR infections we see in our service area is due to widespread vaccination. Most beef herds here are small - folks 'have cattle' because they have a little piece of land - and my assessment, based on experience, is that few in this area do much in the way of vaccination.
However, my sample is 'biased', as all I see are the cases that actually are submitted to the diagnostic laboratory - there may be more IBR out there, but I don't see it or receive calls from veterinary practitioners who are suspecting it. Have seen a couple of IBR respiratory disease cases every couple of years, since about 2007, but before that, we went well over a decade without ever finding IBR in a pneumonic animal, aborted fetus, nasal wash, lung sample, etc.
If you have fence-to-fence contact with other cattle, or co-mingle, as you indicated, in a 'community' pasture, then you do not truly have a 'closed' herd. Sounds pretty 'wide-open' to me...
Something to consider in the future would be the use of the temperature-sensitive intranasal vaccines as an initial step in your vaccination protocol - the viral strains utilized in those vaccines are only able to survive in the cooler temperatures of the nasal cavity, and cannot infect internal tissues, such as the lungs, uterus/placenta, etc.
So far as I'm aware, Nasalgen, TSV-2 , and Inforce-3 are essentially safe for use in calves nursing pregnant cows - but the manufacturers may still give a label caution against it - and if they do so, I wouldn't recommend a client or producer use them in inadequately vaccinated cows.
Edit: There I went, shooting off my mouth again, without checking things out fully.
The intranasal containing BVD may not still be on the market - it really wasn't all that 'new' - and I was unaware that there were any intranasal products containing BVD still on the market; but, looking at label instructions, it is/was not recommended for use in calves nursing pregnant cows.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Any progress reports or further developments?
Hello All, So sorry for my slow response. To be honest, I am now overwhelmed by the possibilities of how IBR arrived at our farm. We had another cow abort on Feb 19 so praying she is the last one. This has certainly taken the wind out of our sails after 30 years of raising cattle.
The vet came out and we had a lengthy discussion. At his point it seem impossible to tell where the virus came from and seems pointless to focus our efforts there. We are trying to look forward and have determined that the protocol we will take is to use a MLV one month before breeding. We will also vaccinate calves at this time. Then calves will be vaccinated again at weaning. Myself, I feel I would never be comfortable putting a MLV in a pregnant cow so this seems the best option for us. Any opinions?
We have been told that the calves that will be coming this spring may be weak or have issues so are preparing to give them extra attention. ie: colostrum, antibiotic, warmth etc.
As for the cows that have aborted.... We are unsure what to do with them but the majority will likely go for slaughter.
The vet came out and we had a lengthy discussion. At his point it seem impossible to tell where the virus came from and seems pointless to focus our efforts there. We are trying to look forward and have determined that the protocol we will take is to use a MLV one month before breeding. We will also vaccinate calves at this time. Then calves will be vaccinated again at weaning. Myself, I feel I would never be comfortable putting a MLV in a pregnant cow so this seems the best option for us. Any opinions?
We have been told that the calves that will be coming this spring may be weak or have issues so are preparing to give them extra attention. ie: colostrum, antibiotic, warmth etc.
As for the cows that have aborted.... We are unsure what to do with them but the majority will likely go for slaughter.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
CL,
Sorry for your troubles. I can only imagine how distressing/depressing it could be.
Agree with your vet, with so many potential sources/exposures, determining where the virus came from may be an impossibility.
If you're going to vaccinate your adult cows/heifers with an MLV product, they'll need the recommended 2 doses - if you only give 1, it's not worth doing - so, plan it so that the second dose is given a month prior to breeding. Same deal for the calves - if you're going to give a MLV, follow the label instructions, with regard to boostering within the recommended timeframe.
Not sure what we'd do here, if confronted with the same deal. We have Spring and Fall calving herds, with most in the Fall group. Could potentially roll some from one group to the next, but would require examination of feed costs relative to time to recoup some $$ from the next calf, etc. Most would likely just have to leave.
Not sure that your spring calves that make it to term - they managed to avoid infection - will have any issues, but it's certainly better to be on the lookout and be prepared in advance for any potential issues.
Sorry for your troubles. I can only imagine how distressing/depressing it could be.
Agree with your vet, with so many potential sources/exposures, determining where the virus came from may be an impossibility.
If you're going to vaccinate your adult cows/heifers with an MLV product, they'll need the recommended 2 doses - if you only give 1, it's not worth doing - so, plan it so that the second dose is given a month prior to breeding. Same deal for the calves - if you're going to give a MLV, follow the label instructions, with regard to boostering within the recommended timeframe.
Not sure what we'd do here, if confronted with the same deal. We have Spring and Fall calving herds, with most in the Fall group. Could potentially roll some from one group to the next, but would require examination of feed costs relative to time to recoup some $$ from the next calf, etc. Most would likely just have to leave.
Not sure that your spring calves that make it to term - they managed to avoid infection - will have any issues, but it's certainly better to be on the lookout and be prepared in advance for any potential issues.
Hi Lucky, Thank you for your sympathies 
Spoke to the Boehringer rep that our vet deals with. He assures me that a "once a year" shot with Express 5 will give us IBR protection. He even says that Boehringer would step up to the plate to pay for IBR losses should they occur. We have already given them a killed vaccine a month ago.
Maybe our vaccines are different up here in Canada. Here is the exact vaccination protocol we are proposing to use this year coming up. All our cattle are on a spring calving program and should start around mid March.
May - Cows - Express 5 and Covexin (8 Way)
May - Calves - Pyramid & Presponse - Vision 8 with somulus
Nov - Fall Calves - Pyramid & Presponse - Vision 8 with somulus
Nov - Replacement Heifers - Will require 2 shots MLV for IBR prior to breeding
Spoke to the Boehringer rep that our vet deals with. He assures me that a "once a year" shot with Express 5 will give us IBR protection. He even says that Boehringer would step up to the plate to pay for IBR losses should they occur. We have already given them a killed vaccine a month ago.
Maybe our vaccines are different up here in Canada. Here is the exact vaccination protocol we are proposing to use this year coming up. All our cattle are on a spring calving program and should start around mid March.
May - Cows - Express 5 and Covexin (8 Way)
May - Calves - Pyramid & Presponse - Vision 8 with somulus
Nov - Fall Calves - Pyramid & Presponse - Vision 8 with somulus
Nov - Replacement Heifers - Will require 2 shots MLV for IBR prior to breeding
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Looks like a workable plan.
Yes, once a year will do it - after they've (naive cows & heifers) been through the initial 2-dose series.
We've been using Bovi-Shield Gold, but the farm manager(wife, and also a DVM), attended a meeting recently, and has indicated that she wants to switch to the Express product next go-round. They're both good product lines.
I've not found it necessary to revaccinate adult cows yearly with the Clostridial bacterin/toxoids(Covexin 8), though I do 'booster' every 2-3 years.
I used to be of the opinion that if vaccinated properly as calves, cattle probably had lifetime immunity - but I've seen enough adult cow, with good calfhood vaccination history, that developed blackleg - usually associated with estrus synchronization injections - that I have changed my perspective, and recommend re-vaccination on a periodic basis. Certainly not costly enough to be a deterrent.
I will provide one caution on the Clostridials - of the very few anaphylactic reactions I've seen, most have been after administering a Clostridial bacterin. Lost a heifer calf to it several years ago, and since then, we hold the vaccinated calves in the barnlot for at least a half hour before turning them out. Had a steer that had a mild reaction to vaccination 3 weeks ago - didn't have to treat him, but it took him an hour or so to get back to normal.
Yes, once a year will do it - after they've (naive cows & heifers) been through the initial 2-dose series.
We've been using Bovi-Shield Gold, but the farm manager(wife, and also a DVM), attended a meeting recently, and has indicated that she wants to switch to the Express product next go-round. They're both good product lines.
I've not found it necessary to revaccinate adult cows yearly with the Clostridial bacterin/toxoids(Covexin 8), though I do 'booster' every 2-3 years.
I used to be of the opinion that if vaccinated properly as calves, cattle probably had lifetime immunity - but I've seen enough adult cow, with good calfhood vaccination history, that developed blackleg - usually associated with estrus synchronization injections - that I have changed my perspective, and recommend re-vaccination on a periodic basis. Certainly not costly enough to be a deterrent.
I will provide one caution on the Clostridials - of the very few anaphylactic reactions I've seen, most have been after administering a Clostridial bacterin. Lost a heifer calf to it several years ago, and since then, we hold the vaccinated calves in the barnlot for at least a half hour before turning them out. Had a steer that had a mild reaction to vaccination 3 weeks ago - didn't have to treat him, but it took him an hour or so to get back to normal.
inyati13
Well-known member
Lucky_P, in regard to the anaphylactic reaction to Clostridial vaccines, what should we be keeping on hand as a treatment? I would regret not being able to do anything.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Epinephrine. You need to visit with your veterinarian regarding dose and usage; it's by prescription only.
I have a bottle that I'm sure is probably years out of date; have never had to use it. Yet. Probably need to replace it with some fresher stuff.
I have a bottle that I'm sure is probably years out of date; have never had to use it. Yet. Probably need to replace it with some fresher stuff.
