I don't know what you are all complaining about

[CattleMan1920]

All I ask for is fewer assumptions and more integrity. Shouldn't we all?
Like Ebeneezer pointed out with the AAA's assumptions on foot scores. Never got word from the AAA wanting foot measurements from any of my angus cattle, and I doubt many members did either. So where did their scores come from?

Milk scores are heavily weighted towards WW's, and assumes that calves with high ww without creep feed, come from bulls with cows that made more milk. Ignoring most of the environmental effects, or even milk quality, along with manipulations by the one reporting the data. If you're going to have a milk score, why not base it on lbs/day, and milk fat content like the dairy industry uses?

Utter scores? none existent. But they did add a $M index that has more to do with ce, and ww than anything when you consider that milk is also based mostly on ww.

Those are my thoughts, take it or leave it.

Next week, I have set up a conversation with a member of the AAA technical staff, I will specifically ask that question. The AAA has a news release on their website addressing the foot EPD. Very good read. But it does not state where the baseline came from.

Please do, and if you would ask when any kind of utter score will come around.

Ron will get to the bottom of things, I assure you of that.

 

[Nesikep]

Here's the Limousin udder scoring system, adopted from the Gelbvieh system adopted from the Holstein system... Hopefully the AAA uses the same one


Here's what I found for the Angus foot scores. I think there ought to be notes on if the animal requires frequent hoof trimming or not, I have a few that aren't that great, but they're 10 years old and have never been touched. Most of mine are a 6/6 in this system, I have I'd much rather have a 5/8 than an 8/5 too.
https://www.angus.org/performance/footscore/footscoreposter.pdf

 

[jscunn]

They better not offer me $1000 a straw for anything in my tank. It would be gone.

Depends on what is in the tank.

If you don't think you can produce an animal worth $1k, then yes, sell it all.

What I was trying to say is I dont think America is worth $960 more than Rainfall, Raindance, Resource or anything in my tank. BTW I dont remember the last time I sold anything for less than $1000 I just dont feel the need to brag on CattleToday..

 

[True Grit Farms]

If my cattle didn't have anything to eat, I wouldn't own cattle.

That's your choice when their your cows, when their my cows I do as I please. I've probably sold more cows in the last few weeks than you own. It stinks to sell bred cows even if their old because you can't feed them.

Is there no feed available, or is it that you do not want to spend the money to keep them? Big difference. I'm sure a call to Richnm can fix that quickly. He will roll up with Alfalfa to your place in a semi faster than Cletus in Smokey and the Bandit.

I'm trying to make money or at least break even every year with my cattle. We've had a couple of bad droughts since we started screwing with cows in 2006 and I learned that you can't feed your way out of a drought. If I had your class of cows it might be worth trying to feed them through the drought. But I can scrounge around the sale barns and restock when the rains come. Then just cull as needed, use good bulls, some AI and end up with a decent herd. I'm 100% convinced that culling is the main ingredient to a good herd of cows.

 

[True Grit Farms]

They better not offer me $1000 a straw for anything in my tank. It would be gone.

Depends on what is in the tank.

If you don't think you can produce an animal worth $1k, then yes, sell it all.

What I was trying to say is I dont think America is worth $960 more than Rainfall, Raindance, Resource or anything in my tank. BTW I dont remember the last time I sold anything for less than $1000 I just dont feel the need to brag on CattleToday..

Your very humble for someone that has done so well. :clap:

 

[jscunn]

Thanks alot TG, means alot from you considering you have actually seen the bulls we have sold.

 

[Bright Raven]

Here's the Limousin udder scoring system, adopted from the Gelbvieh system adopted from the Holstein system... Hopefully the AAA uses the same one


Here's what I found for the Angus foot scores. I think there ought to be notes on if the animal requires frequent hoof trimming or not, I have a few that aren't that great, but they're 10 years old and have never been touched. Most of mine are a 6/6 in this system, I have I'd much rather have a 5/8 than an 8/5 too.
https://www.angus.org/performance/footscore/footscoreposter.pdf

I could not get it to open. If you go to AAA website there is a link to their new foot EPD. Good read. It does not say how the baseline was established.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I'm confused on this feet EPD business as well. We owned a son of Bismarck 5682 and never had a bit of trouble with his feet. Bought him in March of 2012 as a 2 year old and retired him in 2018. Look at the new feet EPDs. There are some who would have said he'd have gone lame within the first year.

I think it'll be awhile before this gets sorted out.

 

[Nesikep]

Here's the Limousin udder scoring system, adopted from the Gelbvieh system adopted from the Holstein system... Hopefully the AAA uses the same one


Here's what I found for the Angus foot scores. I think there ought to be notes on if the animal requires frequent hoof trimming or not, I have a few that aren't that great, but they're 10 years old and have never been touched. Most of mine are a 6/6 in this system, I have I'd much rather have a 5/8 than an 8/5 too.
https://www.angus.org/performance/footscore/footscoreposter.pdf

I could not get it to open. If you go to AAA website there is a link to their new foot EPD. Good read. It does not say how the baseline was established.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Excellent chart on the feet Nesi, who is reporting this information? I never have nor will I in the future.

 

[Bright Raven]

Excellent chart on the feet Nesi, who is reporting this information? I never have nor will I in the future.

That chart comes from the link I have mentioned for the third time. Pay attention Mr. Bird.

I would copy the link here but the AAA site will not allow it. Not sure what causes that.

 

[Bright Raven]

Here is a screenshot. Best I can do. Go to AAA.

free craps game app

 

[Silver]

Now if you want to raise other breeds because you truly enjoy that breed, that's great, absolutely nothing wrong with that and I support your program, but if you (not actually you) are avoiding Angus because you think they have a plethora of problems and you believe they will spell the downfall of your operation, then I wish you well as you are phased out of the cattle business over time.

That is why Angus makes TOTAL sense if you are wanting your cattle business to get to the next level.

Hogwash, of course. As a STO commercial cattleman my goal is to be as productive and profitable as possible on the land base I have to work with. I need to do better than what straight Angus can do for me. I have a hint of it here (red), but that is enough for me. I can tell you that I will in fact not be phased out over time, in fact quite the contrary. I always do better than the black cattle on sale day.
I'm getting pretty tired of the "get on board or get left behind" BS you keep spouting, it's insulting and it's based on nothing.
Every post you comment on you make all about you. I'm tired of good threads turning into a Branded sales pitch and bragging marathon. Give it a rest. I'm sure your cattle are alright, I don't think your cattle will ever be as good or productive as mine under the same conditions (there, that's my boast for today) because your breed of choice simply isn't capable.

End of rant.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

@Bright Raven

Why do I want a free craps game app?

Isn't fooling with cattle craps enough?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Now if you want to raise other breeds because you truly enjoy that breed, that's great, absolutely nothing wrong with that and I support your program, but if you (not actually you) are avoiding Angus because you think they have a plethora of problems and you believe they will spell the downfall of your operation, then I wish you well as you are phased out of the cattle business over time.

That is why Angus makes TOTAL sense if you are wanting your cattle business to get to the next level.

Hogwash, of course. As a STO commercial cattleman my goal is to be as productive and profitable as possible on the land base I have to work with. I need to do better than what straight Angus can do for me. I have a hint of it here (red), but that is enough for me. I can tell you that I will in fact not be phased out over time, in fact quite the contrary. I always do better than the black cattle on sale day.
I'm getting pretty tired of the "get on board or get left behind" BS you keep spouting, it's insulting and it's based on nothing.
Every post you comment on you make all about you. I'm tired of good threads turning into a Branded sales pitch and bragging marathon. Give it a rest. I'm sure your cattle are alright, I don't think your cattle will ever be as good or productive as mine under the same conditions (there, that's my boast for today) because your breed of choice simply isn't capable.

End of rant.

So what is your breed of choice or cross for that matter, Silver?

 

[Bright Raven]

@Bright Raven

Why do I want a free craps game app?

Isn't fooling with cattle craps enough?

No. Cattle is less than 50 : 50.

 

[Silver]

So what is your breed of choice or cross for that matter, Silver?

Don't have a breed to pimp. Currently using a lot of Fleckvieh bulls. A little RA mixed in here and there. A lot of Blonde d'Aquitaine in the cow herds history but getting watered down over time. Always prepared to switch it up at any time if a better idea comes along.
edit: as long as whatever is introduced keeps the uniformity

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

So what is your breed of choice or cross for that matter, Silver?

Don't have a breed to pimp. Currently using a lot of Fleckvieh bulls. A little RA mixed in here and there. A lot of Blonde d'Aquitaine in the cow herds history but getting watered down over time. Always prepared to switch it up at any time if a better idea comes along.
edit: as long as whatever is introduced keeps the uniformity

I love those Blonde d'Aquitaine cows. Don't ever see them down this way. Don't see much other than Black Angus, Charolais, and Hereford really.

 

[Bright Raven]

@Bright Raven

Why do I want a free craps game app?

Isn't fooling with cattle craps enough?

See if this works:

http://www.angus.org/Media/News/FullArticle.aspx?aiID=1030&asTitle=New-Foot-Structure-EPDs-Claw-Set-and-Foot-Angle

 

[Nesikep]

Excellent chart on the feet Nesi, who is reporting this information? I never have nor will I in the future.

I guess some people are, I don't know how many will in the future, especially not on the bad hooved animals! If my herd was registered I'd do it I guess, as well as udder scores.

One thing I found is hoof shape seems to come from the mother more than the sire... Started out with some cows that had horrid feet.. flat footed like heck, soft hooves that split, etc... Some had good hooves that wore well.
5 generations later you can still tell the families apart from their hooves, and still have the occasional one that's not so great (though they have improved a lot)

Took this pic of my bull's hoof to show how he was a dumbass on day 2 of breeding and managed to cut himself pretty good.. seems to be healing alright though.. He's from the maternal line that had good feet, he's 7 years old now