I Am Angus - we gotta work together!

[vclavin]

From the President. This is what we all need to look at. Working together, using the resources and stop thinking we know it all. Things change whether we want them to or not. Profit is how we change with it.
Please read:
http://www.angus.org/Pub/Newsroom/Relea ... visQA.aspx
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

Feel free to comment

 

[RD-Sam]

That's like telling a bunch of three year olds to play nice with each other, pretty soon, one of them is gonna crack the other one over the head with a toy.

 

[3waycross]

Welcome to the newest version of PIMP YOUR BREED. :shock:

 

[hillsdown]

Welcome to the newest version of PIMP YOUR BREED. :shock:

:lol2: :clap:

 

[Aero]

From the President. This is what we all need to look at. Working together, using the resources and stop thinking we know it all. Things change whether we want them to or not. Profit is how we change with it.
Please read:
http://www.angus.org/Pub/Newsroom/Relea ... visQA.aspx
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

Feel free to comment

you do understand that the "President" title is an honorary position and has very little to do with the actual happenings at St Jo?

it's like being Grand Marshall of a parade.

 

[EAT BEEF]

and stop thinking we know it all.



Maybe you can lead by example.

 

[KMacGinley]

I like how he talked about the attributes that made him choose angus to begin with, while the high rollers and their wannabees are going full speed ahead to turn the breed into Black Charolais and breed those traits out of the cattle through single trait carcass selection. That is fine with me. You guys argue about those DNA tests and pay those fees and breed those supposedly carcass friendly cattle so the packers can make a fortune. I will get along with you just fine, because you leave me with a wide open market. I am breeding Angus cattle that actually have traditional angus traits so that the cow-calf guy can make great females and good enough steers.

 

[novatech]

I am breeding Angus cattle that actually have traditional angus traits so that the cow-calf guy can make great females and good enough steers.

What are traditional Angus traits and what current Angus traits are you avoiding or consider non-traditional?

 

[Aero]

I am breeding Angus cattle that actually have traditional angus traits so that the cow-calf guy can make great females and good enough steers.

now that is a goal that should command respect!

 

[Aero]

I am breeding Angus cattle that actually have traditional angus traits so that the cow-calf guy can make great females and good enough steers.

What are traditional Angus traits and what current Angus traits are you avoiding or consider non-traditional?

i think the phrase "Black Charolais" should pretty much explain all of that.

 

[novatech]

I am breeding Angus cattle that actually have traditional angus traits so that the cow-calf guy can make great females and good enough steers.

What are traditional Angus traits and what current Angus traits are you avoiding or consider non-traditional?

i think the phrase "Black Charolais" should pretty much explain all of that.

I agree on breeding for color but I think KMacGinley was talking about pure Angus.

 

[Tod Dague]

What are traditional Angus traits and what current Angus traits are you avoiding or consider non-traditional?

i think the phrase "Black Charolais" should pretty much explain all of that.

I agree on breeding for color but I think KMacGinley was talking about pure Angus.

Breeding pure Angus to resemble "Black Charolais" (a terminal breed for the most part) in performance.

 

[VanC]

An example would be marbling and muscle. If you select for extremely high REAs and less backfat, you're going to hurt the marbling, at least to a degree.

 

[Aero]

what are the traditional strengths of Angus?

marbling, maternal, and calving ease. that's it!

optimize (not maximize) those 3 traits while being acceptable for other traits and you have something. add more to the description and you are moving in a non-Angus direction and will not be as good at those traits as you could have been. one animal can only be good at a few things. if you want an animal to be bad at nothing he/she will also be good at nothing. to quote mike: you cant have it all!

 

[KMacGinley]

If you are breeding by the numbers for the biggest carcass epds and the biggest growth epds you will end up with 1600# plus 7+ frame cows eventually. That is terminal breeding. You would be much better off simply purchasing a Charolais or simmental bull to put on your cows. The replacement females are just like the elephant ads the angus breed used to run, except now the angus breed has become the elephant. I was comparing the angus breed to becoming "black Charolais". As Aero said, you can't have everything in one package.

The angus breed, already has adequate marbling and calving ease, what is lacking in terminal type angus cattle is breed back potential on realistic feed levels for the commercial producer, longevity, feet and legs etc., for none of which an epd exists to measure it and these are the most important traits to the cow-calf man. The extra growth as Aero pointed out on the 5 bar X board is not worth so much above 400 lbs weaning weight if you are selling feeder calves in the real world anyway.

For pete's sake, the 2536 cow everyone was trying to use sons out of a year or so ago, before she tested positive had to weigh 2000 lbs. How big do you think her granddaughters will get?

Anyway, the point that I am trying to make here is that there is a market for people that want to produce what the commercial guy needs. Which is real angus cattle with real angus traits. I am not going to tell people that the other type is fine and dandy to "work together with others."

 

[vclavin]

An example would be marbling and muscle. If you select for extremely high REAs and less backfat, you're going to hurt the marbling, at least to a degree.

According to the geneticist, IMF and Backfat are independant of each other - you can therefore breed for either (IMF or FAT) and not change the other. Select for possitive IMF and negative Fat.
Rib eye is different, as rib eye increases IMF decreases. He said there are exceptions to the RE/IMF rule, just have to find the animal that is capable of increasing both at the same time. NOT easy. Select for RE and IMF that are very close to same EPD number.
I haven't noticed much correlation between High RE and added muscling. Have you?
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[Oldtimer]

An example would be marbling and muscle. If you select for extremely high REAs and less backfat, you're going to hurt the marbling, at least to a degree.

According to the geneticist, IMF and Backfat are independant of each other - you can therefore breed for either (IMF or FAT) and not change the other. Select for possitive IMF and negative Fat.
Rib eye is different, as rib eye increases IMF decreases. He said there are exceptions to the RE/IMF rule, just have to find the animal that is capable of increasing both at the same time. NOT easy. Select for RE and IMF that are very close to same EPD number.
I haven't noticed much correlation between High RE and added muscling. Have you?
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

And where you probably breed to lower backfat-- I prefer to have some backfat as it sure makes an old cow more energy efficient when its standing out in 20 Below weather with a 20 mph breeze blowing like we're supposed to get tommorrow night...

 

[vclavin]

An example would be marbling and muscle. If you select for extremely high REAs and less backfat, you're going to hurt the marbling, at least to a degree.

According to the geneticist, IMF and Backfat are independant of each other - you can therefore breed for either (IMF or FAT) and not change the other. Select for possitive IMF and negative Fat.
Rib eye is different, as rib eye increases IMF decreases. He said there are exceptions to the RE/IMF rule, just have to find the animal that is capable of increasing both at the same time. NOT easy. Select for RE and IMF that are very close to same EPD number.
I haven't noticed much correlation between High RE and added muscling. Have you?
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

And where you probably breed to lower backfat-- I prefer to have some backfat as it sure makes an old cow more energy efficient when its standing out in 20 Below weather with a 20 mph breeze blowing like we're supposed to get tommorrow night...

We are getting it tonight. And.... my girls have no trouble with the cold. I don't get rid of all of it - just don't need tons of it. The CAB website said it was shown that cows that are high IMF maintain condition score much better than their counterparts.

Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[krenwic]

We are getting it tonight. And.... my girls have no trouble with the cold. I don't get rid of all of it - just don't need tons of it. The CAB website said it was shown that cows that are high IMF maintain condition score much better than their counterparts.

Blessings
Valerie Clavin

This couldn't be further from the truth in the humid conditions of the South. Here high IMF = hard keep.

 

[vclavin]

Pretty humid here in Missouri too. We have no trouble with the high marblers. They are the one's that stay in the best condition even feeding twins. Maybe there's more to it than just marbling (cows are high milk EPD too,)
Blessings
Valerie Clavin