How's my corral plan from complete greeny?

[7greenhorn]

Well my username says it all... I'm new to cattle and I'm trying to build a corral for my animals. I'm farming yaks and I'm aiming at building something to manage a moderately small herd. I currently have 54 head and would like to stay at around 70-75 head total. I tried studying as much as I could and took my best stab at constructing a moderately sized corral that would best suit me but in a small package. I'm not trying to eat up alot of a 14 acre pasture it will reside in. I tried to make it as non 90 degree through the runs and as clockwise as possible minus the meat market pen which should rarely hold over 1 animal at a time. It may look a little funky sitting off to the side of the squeeze chute but the way of my thinking was to utilize the right side exit of the squeeze chute to get them in there. That pen can still be used for combing fiber and maintenance on other animals because I'd probably run them through during market times seperate from vaccinations etc. I know when they leave the squeeze chute if they aren't going directly back to the pasture it's different because the animals need to go left to their respective holding pens for sorting purposes. It's 8' wide so I was hoping that'd be enough room for them to turn and go into the direction they came from and get scooped into either pen A or pen B...

Here's the link... saved it as bmp so you can get a good view of it.

The preview looks like it cuts off the other side so maybe by going to the link directly it may show the whole thing in it's entirety...
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy11 ... alplan.jpg

Well what do you guys think? Will it work? I feel confident the animals would run through it pretty well but wanted to get second opinions from seasoned guys before I start breaking ground. Hoping to get it in before the winter. I need a better way to get these animals shots and wormed Really hoping I did a good thing here so I don't need to redesign :?

Thanks in advance!!!

 

[KNERSIE]

Looks pretty good, I'd just narrow that alleyway at the top of the page down to 8 or 9' and add a loading bay where the 4' gate is where you load out of the race.

 

[Dirty Boots]

IMO gates going into holding pens need to be same width as alleys so you can run cattle up alley and sort back especially when your by yourself. also I would never make a sorting alley less than 12ft. wide. A 12ft. alley lets you sort cows and calves and still gives you room to stay back far enough to hopefuuly not get kicked. Make sure gates will swing both ways into pen and int. o alley. As previos post said you need some way to load out. On rented ground I will load out thru squeeze chute with my portable corral and chute and into stock trailer. Works fairly good. But if this is a permanent setup definitely build a better waythan that if possible.Good luck. I enjoy working cattle in a good setup, I dread it in a bad setup.

 

[7greenhorn]

Thanks for the quick responses and the help! A bit nerve racking hoping to make sure you do it right so you don't need to redo or pull anything back out of the ground.

Looks pretty good, I'd just narrow that alleyway at the top of the page down to 8 or 9' and add a loading bay where the 4' gate is where you load out of the race.

Will redesign, narrow the top, and widen the bottom in the sorting alley as Dirty Boots recommended. Was thinking to keep it wider so more animals can fit but I suppose that leaves more room for them to run around you when your trying to crowd em in the tub. As for the loading bay, I think I'll shift the entire corral up to the 4' gate section out of the pasture and just have the animals run down the sorting lane to get back into the pasture if there's no need for sorting. Then make a loading bay that angles out away from the main pasture.

IMO gates going into holding pens need to be same width as alleys so you can run cattle up alley and sort back especially when your by yourself. also I would never make a sorting alley less than 12ft. wide. A 12ft. alley lets you sort cows and calves and still gives you room to stay back far enough to hopefuuly not get kicked. Make sure gates will swing both ways into pen and int. o alley. As previos post said you need some way to load out. On rented ground I will load out thru squeeze chute with my portable corral and chute and into stock trailer. Works fairly good. But if this is a permanent setup definitely build a better waythan that if possible.Good luck. I enjoy working cattle in a good setup, I dread it in a bad setup.

I was thinking by making the doors longer than the width of the sorting ally they would create an angle for the animals to go in and it'd also pinch the gate open. I see where swinging gates would be more beneficial though... Wasn't anticipating sorting back but gotta plan for everything!!! As you read above I'm going to take both pieces of advice and redraft the corral and I'll repost when finished.

I love places like these that can help new folks get their operations up and running. Thanks for the advice and if anyone has anything more to add please feel free!!! I'll take as much as I can get! Steep learning curve on this end for me

 

[shaz]

I think I would even split one of those catch pens. My setup has 4 catch pens and a 10x60 lane leading to the sweep tub.

Oh. and don't forget these !
http://www.surelatch.com/ProductDetails ... 2D158%2D2L

Money well spent in my opinion. ;-)

 

[7greenhorn]

I think I would even split one of those catch pens. My setup has 4 catch pens and a 10x60 lane leading to the sweep tub.

Oh. and don't forget these !
http://www.surelatch.com/ProductDetails ... 2D158%2D2L

Money well spent in my opinion. ;-)

Shaz how many head are you running? How large are your catch pens and how many animals do you put in each? I only put 2 pens in because we have such a small group?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Dirty Boots]

Seems most tubs are built like your design but Ive never seen it fail, when you run cattle into a tub like that they turn and nose right into where that crowd gate hinges. I have a PARASAL brand portable tub and alley that works better than anything ive ever used. The crowd gate hinges at the begining of the alley leading to the sqeeze chute. Google Parasal portable tubs for a picture and youll see better than I can explain it. Ive seen this design in a permanent setup and cattle flow thru it soooo much easier. Good luck.

 

[Herefords.US]

The main thing that I see is that I would move those gates that are in/out of your holding pens from the center of the pen to one corner or the other and make the gates the same size as the width of your alleyway.

 

[shaz]

I think I would even split one of those catch pens. My setup has 4 catch pens and a 10x60 lane leading to the sweep tub.

Oh. and don't forget these !
http://www.surelatch.com/ProductDetails ... 2D158%2D2L

Money well spent in my opinion. ;-)

Shaz how many head are you running? How large are your catch pens and how many animals do you put in each? I only put 2 pens in because we have such a small group?

Thanks in advance!

I run 100hd but will get up to 150 next year.
I really meant holding pens. It's not really how many head but what your trying to accomplish. More pens=more flexible.
You may want to seperate cows and calves - worked vs unworked, keeper heifers vs everything else and cull cows.
Mine are 16x36 and 16x24. I have 2 other pens, one is 12x60 the other is unkown?
Overall I like your design but you'll run yourself to death in a 25x25 area unless your moving a big group and it just never works that way. I spend most of my time seperating cows-not actually working them.
The other thing I or someone else should have mentioned is that you need a funnel into the pen. I don't have a clear picture for how you catch your cows so I guess you have feed bunks close to the pen?? The real trick is catching ALL the cows and calves in the first place.

 

[7greenhorn]

Thanks again everyone! It appears my comments need to be approved and then are injected with proper timestamp behind posts that have taken place. Just wanted to make sure I thanked everyone and throw it out there that I responded to some posts

Seems most tubs are built like your design but Ive never seen it fail, when you run cattle into a tub like that they turn and nose right into where that crowd gate hinges.....

Thanks again Boots! I'm usually really apt to incorporate all things but that's really going to dramatically reduce the size and change a big part of how the crowding pen works. Looking at it I see how much a difference it is and I think I might take a stab at doing this. I already incorporated everything that has been suggested so far and was about the post the new draft but this one really has me thinking. Do you guys usually only run a few through the crowding pen at a time? I would think with the way I now have it designed I'd be able to run quite a few maybe even 15-20 at a time in there. With the new design that does appear to make it flow better it looks like I may only be able to run 5 or so. How do you all run them through your pens? Like I said I've literally never done this so please bear with me :mrgreen:

 

[7greenhorn]

The main thing that I see is that I would move those gates that are in/out of your holding pens from the center of the pen to one corner or the other and make the gates the same size as the width of your alleyway.

Good call on gates to a corner... that way it's easier to chase em out by cornering them I assume. Gates are now same size.

........More pens=more flexible.
You may want to seperate cows and calves - worked vs unworked, keeper heifers vs everything else and cull cows.
Mine are 16x36 and 16x24. I have 2 other pens, one is 12x60 the other is unkown?
Overall I like your design but you'll run yourself to death in a 25x25 area unless your moving a big group and it just never works that way. I spend most of my time seperating cows-not actually working them.

With your advice I ended up doing 3 16'x25' pens without having to sacrifice any area in the pasture. I think your right and I should be able to safely put 20+ animals in that area. I was thinking of cattle comfort when I probably overdid it

...The other thing I or someone else should have mentioned is that you need a funnel into the pen. I don't have a clear picture for how you catch your cows so I guess you have feed bunks close to the pen?? The real trick is catching ALL the cows and calves in the first place.

What I was hoping to do was run them into that corner. If you click the link you can get the whole picture of the corral. The big plan :| lol if you can call it that was to run them into that corner leaving them the only option of going into the crowding lane. Was hoping the fence and the 40' that extends into the pasture would pinch em. Would that work or is that wishful thinking

 

[shaz]

With the number of cows your talking about running them into a corner will get the first 10 through and they'll just stand there making it so the rest can't come in. You would have to move them in groups into the pen.

Put 10 panels forming a funnel into the gate along that fence.

Trust me on this one!

 

[7greenhorn]

Well here's a revised draft. Made the crowding ally narrower to 10', Made sorting alley larger to 12' as well as changing the length of gates to match alley width, changed crowding tub style so they won't turn and face the pivot point, added loading bay, added a third holding pen by shrinking them to 16x25, and moved the gates to the corners on the holding pens. I think that's everything. I did the best I could if you guys know of anything that will make it flow better please let me know!

Hopefully this is an improvement from the original. Can't wait to get feedback!

It's cutoff again on the image tag below so here is link
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy11 ... esign2.jpg

 

[KNERSIE]

pretty good plan, just lengthen your race

 

[Dirty Boots]

When we work cattle I tell whoevers helping me no more than 5 calves at a time in the tub or 3 or 4 cows. Any more and they just start circling and you work yourself to death trying to get them to flow down the alley to the chute. Kind of a less is more type of thing. Also I like to see a 20 ft. alley going to chute if possible. That way the guyat the chute or vet shouldnt have to wait on cattle. Highly recommend that you make the sides of your tub and alley solid sided so cattle cant see out. Makes a big difference. It appears for cattle to get into the meat pen you have to open the side of the squeeze chute. Will that work for you? Not trying to pee in your chili but I know how but work goes into building these things and its much easier to change things on paper than it is once theyre built. Three of us recently worked one group of 91 weaned calves in 55 minutes and I dont think anyone broke a sweat.

 

[1982vett]

Not sure of a need for a "market holding pen" for just one animal when you already have three other holding pens plus all the other alleys. I think it looks a bit "tight" from a cows perspective with that many pens. The swing gate (crowing gate) in the first plan is way better than the second. Lengthen the ally to the working area by moving it all the way to the front corner. Work on the loading bay area...don't leave room for anything to have a chance to turn around. If you don't really need the market holding pen you could position the loading alley before the head gate.

I think you have thought more about the cattle flow than you have thought about how easy it will be for you to get back and forth to the working area during the process. If you have plenty of help (a person on each gate) no problem. But if you work by yourself as I do, I see a lot of long walks to repostion gates as needed or to even move animals through the system. Locate a few access gates to shorten some of those walks.

 

[nkotb]

I personally would move the market holding pen and the load out farther forward or the chute farther back so you don't have to run everything through the chute to get them loaded out or into the market pen.

 

[7greenhorn]

Little bit of differing POV's which is good but more thinking for me haha.

....It appears for cattle to get into the meat pen you have to open the side of the squeeze chute. Will that work for you?....

Yeah that was the plan but I wasn't sure how well that'd work... Without enclosing it I don't know how I would even use the side exit for anything to be honest. 1982vet brought up a valid point though that if I have that many pens I may not even need that pen on the side there so I may redraft, remove, and put some sort of hinging door on the alley to the chute for the loading bay.

I personally would move the market holding pen and the load out farther forward or the chute farther back so you don't have to run everything through the chute to get them loaded out or into the market pen.

Thinking about doing exactly as you said... Seems to be the general consensus among everyone.

 

[7greenhorn]

Not sure of a need for a "market holding pen" for just one animal when you already have three other holding pens plus all the other alleys. I think it looks a bit "tight" from a cows perspective with that many pens....

Great point... I will probably remove the market pen and utilize one of the others and redo the loading bay to shoot off the chute alley. Do you think the pens aren't big enough? Should I have left them bigger? I'm hoping to only put approximately 20-25 head in each pen. How big are yours and how many head do you run in 'em?

....The swing gate (crowing gate) in the first plan is way better than the second. Lengthen the ally to the working area by moving it all the way to the front corner....

Most all the plans I saw seemed to utilize my first drafts crowding gate design but Dirty Boots' suggestion seemed to be a good one and I can see how it may work better which is why I changed tune. Have you any experience with the design from my second draft? Do you experience what he sees with the 1st style where the cattle turn and face the pivot point of the gate?

....Locate a few access gates to shorten some of those walks.

Guilty about being lazy and not putting those on paper just like the swinging gates. All gates have possibility of opening either direction just never annotated it on paper on 1st. Will put those in the next one after I hear back on which crowding tub design may be superior over the other. Crowding tub changes alot of things regarding design and size of things so definitely want to drill down what design I should use.
EDIT* any recommendations on where I could use them at? After looking at it I was honestly only planning on putting one directly above the working area at the tip of where the crowd gate would be so I can get in and out of there. Should I put them anywhere else?

 

[Herefords.US]

Lots of good features in the plan, but I still would lengthen the chute(race) by at least 8 feet + build in a palpation cage right behind the squeeze. And I'd probably lengthen all the holding pens by the same amount and make them that much larger if you're looking at putting 25 head in them. You'd also benefit by having the working area gate close against the squeeze chute rather than be hinged on that side. If you don't, you'll be walking around that gate a lot! And I'd have that same kind of easy access to the other side of the squeeze as well.

I'm also curious what kind of program that you're using to draw these plans?