How much should I charge?

[ollie']

What do you do if it doesn't take? Do you get your implant money since your cow is already into the next breeding cycle and may calve late for your operation?

I would disagree with LA here. I say start them 10days early and no damage will be done to your calving cycle. You probably will get more calves in the first 30days than you would have otherwise. No charge for those that don't settle. He pays for all the sync expense and provides cowboy help.

 

[Shorthornguy]

Consider this paradigmn. You have embyo to use on some cows.
Why not buy top notch cows $1,200.00- $1,500.00. Implant and raise the calf. Get the cow bred back and sell her. You still have the ET cost and cost of keeping her which is cheaper than paying someone else $1,000.00 JMO

 

[Herefords.US]

Consider this paradigmn. You have embyo to use on some cows.
Why not buy top notch cows $1,200.00- $1,500.00. Implant and raise the calf. Get the cow bred back and sell her. You still have the ET cost and cost of keeping her which is cheaper than paying someone else $1,000.00 JMO

That had been MY plan! However, the drought left me with the choice of selling all my recip cows - or cutting deep into my replacement heifers. I sold the recip cows.

With concern about how heavy to stock this next year, and being unable to find any additional decent lease pasture, the rent-a-recip option appears to be my only viable alternative -beside waiting a year or so before implanting the embryos.

George

 

[George Monk]

The reason he isn't buying brood cows of his own is that he doesn't have the available pasture.
I would go ahead and use a clean up bull on the rest of the cows that didn't settle. We did some embryo transfer this year and the ones that didn't settle got bred on the next cycle. We put the bull in one week after implant and then watched heats carefully so that we had a general idea of how many embryos took. Judging from observed heats we were successful with 8/14 embryos. I did end up with more open cows then I have ever had though. I am not sure if this was do to the age of some of the cows; some 13yr olds and a couple heifers didn't settle.
We started with 23 cows and ended up implanting 14. Some came in 12 hours too soon and some others 12 hours later. The protocol we used involved lutylase and estramate. I think next year I will include MGA as our cows are spoiled rotten and all eat well from the trough.
I have black cattle and would use a hereford bull so identification shouldn't be a problem
My partner is very well versed in this process and understands the risks and he is familiar with my mommas. That is why he wants to use our cows. We would also use his vet to implant them. I used to work for the vet when I was in college so I think everyone here understands each others responsibility but after reading to all your insightful responses a simple contract or list of said resposibilities is a good idea.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

Maybe someone can explain the $300 extra cost per calf weaned. Other then taking BW what's the difference between me buying th e calf and them runnin it through the market. I would rather buy recips and feed them all winter. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Around here you can buy some year old hay for around $20-30 a bail. It would be cheaper to dry lot the cow all year than to pay $300 extra for a calf. Plus the calves are your's when you bring them home.

 

[Herefords.US]

Around here you can buy some year old hay for around $20-30 a bail. It would be cheaper to dry lot the cow all year than to pay $300 extra for a calf. Plus the calves are your's when you bring them home.

Here, year-old hay(coastal bermuda) is selling for $70-$85 a round bale PLUS delivery. That makes dry-lotting any cows a whole lot less palatable to the pocketbook.

George

 

[Brandonm2]

I have to agree with the people on the high end. $800 per weaned calf would be the MINIMUM. You are doing a lot more work synchronizing and implanting all your cows and recording weights. TYPICALLY recips have a lower conception rate than AI or natural and SINCE he is not paying for open cows, he could use his B and C grade embryos. That or a bad technician could really cost you a month or more on the start of your calving season and possibly stringing out a group of good cows would annoy me too no end. Also if any question arises too parentage of a calf who pays for DNA testing? I would have to have $800 a head and HALF that upfront (number of cows times 70% success rate; divided by 50%; times $800) and he would have too pay all the technician's fees.

 

[Brandonm2]

Maybe someone can explain the $300 extra cost per calf weaned. Other then taking BW what's the difference between me buying th e calf and them runnin it through the market. I would rather buy recips and feed them all winter. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Around here you can buy some year old hay for around $20-30 a bail. It would be cheaper to dry lot the cow all year than to pay $300 extra for a calf. Plus the calves are your's when you bring them home.

I bet if you did the math on 50 recips, $300 a head too let somebody else pay for hay, grain, minerals, fertilizer, fence repairs, dewormer, vet expenses, machinery expense, property taxes, and factor in that you don't pay a nickle on the 25-40% of the cows that don't wean an ET calf PROBABLY is a heck of a lot better deal for the guy than owning the 50 recips yourself.

 

[Brandonm2]

sorry I double posted that last message.

 

[George Monk]

Lets decide what are the responsibilities of the parties.

Me - provide healthy, sychronized recips (including shots based on agreed protocol and heat detection), facilities for implanting, good herdmanship to get that calf on the ground. Collect BW, WW, tag, worm, medicate if necessary, provide mineral, fly control, creep feed and facilities (dependent on the wishes of the partner????), eartag and tatoo. Would I be responsible for vet fees encountered AFTER the calf is born??? (I think I would)

Partner - provide embryos, pay for vet fee and synchronizing drugs, take away weaned calves on specific date.

what else???

Each party get in return;

Me $$$$$

Partner - a high quality registered calf.

If I can sell a natural calf from my herd for around 650 then 800 doesn't sound like to much for the additional expense and effort, maybe a bargain for the partner!

 

[plbcattle]

I pay $1000 per weaned calf. They have to ratio high and be acceptable to me or I don't own them. This is so they make sure to take care of the calf and not just let them fend for themselves. That covers all cost and I just have to pick up the calf at weaning. With the influx of ET calf raisers, there has been a rash of bad reviews of people signing up to get this higher $ for the calves and not take care of them. If you are putting your best genetics in a cow, she is as important as the genetics the egg came from, she needs to raise a good calf. I also am buying the preg recip from another program for $1300. This way you only get preg recips that are 90-120 preg. The absorption rate should be close to 0 at that stage of preg. Just some suggestions. also we pay on 1/3's. 1/3 at 90-120 days bred, 1/3 at calving, and 1/3 at pick up time. there is no need to pay for 1/3 at implant time because you could get 40-75% conception rate. You should only pay for calves that are weaned. Also some people turn the calves back to the owner, there has to be some sort of understanding that if you are putting in eggs out of matings that produce huge ww and you pick up some 350-450 lb calves, you might have a problem.