How much is the falling market going to affect bull prices?

[Muddy]

These bulls that are on craigslist and still for sale are probably because they're backyard operations (I mean 'weekenders') and they don't keep up with current prices.. all they remember are the bull and calf prices of this spring and assume prices have kept climbing.

Didn't you think you're a bit generalizing "weekenders" just because they have mongrel bulls? I've seen few sorry looking Angus x Hereford bulls offered for sale and there are lot of Horned Angus bulls came out of your average operations.

 

[M.Magis]

These bulls that are on craigslist and still for sale are probably because they're backyard operations (I mean 'weekenders') and they don't keep up with current prices.. all they remember are the bull and calf prices of this spring and assume prices have kept climbing.

Didn't you think you're a bit generalizing "weekenders" just because they have mongrel bulls? I've seen few sorry looking Angus x Hereford bulls offered for sale and there are lot of Horned Angus bulls came out of your average operations.

I think you misunderstood what he was saying.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

My bull prices were the same this fall that they were in the spring and last fall, and I had no problem selling them. All of my bulls this fall were sold as 9 and 10 month old's, and nothing below $3000. Maybe next year it will change, but for now I am happy!

 

[Muddy]

These bulls that are on craigslist and still for sale are probably because they're backyard operations (I mean 'weekenders') and they don't keep up with current prices.. all they remember are the bull and calf prices of this spring and assume prices have kept climbing.

Didn't you think you're a bit generalizing "weekenders" just because they have mongrel bulls? I've seen few sorry looking Angus x Hereford bulls offered for sale and there are lot of Horned Angus bulls came out of your average operations.

I think you misunderstood what he was saying.

Oh I understand what he said very clearly. My point is that it isn't isolated to the backyard breeders. There's just not much demand for these mongrel bulls, regardless of the prices.

 

[Nesikep]

I think quality bulls will always be worth a pretty penny, but when prices are sky high, it may just be beyond many people's budget to afford them, which is when the cheap bulls that still put calves on the ground are sufficient for many small guys.. I'm sure if affordability weren't an issue everyone would go with a good bull, just like a new BMW isn't affordable to everyone, some people either opt for a used one, or a Kia if they want a new vehicle.

As long as the buyer isn't hoodwinked and told a mongrel bull is purebred, the decision to buy it (and the responsability for his herd) is on the buyer.

 

[WalnutCrest]

<snip>

I've been watching few mongrel bulls for sale on Craigslist for a while and they're still for sale.

What do you mean by "mongrel" bulls?

Let me try this again ... what do you mean by "mongrel" bulls?

 

[cowgirl8]

Let me try this again ... what do you mean by "mongrel" bulls?

It has several meanings. The one most relevant to this forum means cattle with unknown origins of breed..You buy from a sale barn and no papers come with the cow, its a mongrel. Doesnt matter what it is, its considered a mongrel.
The second use is used by Muddy to insult my cattle. I know the origins of our cattle, just not the % of mixture of some. Technically, a mongrel, but i know their origins, so they are not mongrels to me. You'll see his insults scattered about, seems to try to throw them in no matter what the subject is.. Maybe he has too much time on his hands, maybe he's just sad....dont know. We all try to ignore him.. :lol2:

 

[C-Ranch]

I run 6 bulls...5 are registered Angus, 1 is not and would be considered a Mongrel. This is the last bull in our operation that won't be papered and is currently 5 years old and will be replaced next spring. However, I have to admit I have sent a couple of papered bulls down the road that produced less than desirable calves. The Mongrel bull has been solid all 5 years and has produced better calves than some we've had with papers. So, If cowgirl, or anyone else runs a solid operation and buyers can see past stock that has been produced by the so called Mongrel bulls, then he or she are probably just as safe as the person who paid $6K for a papered bull (IMO). Bottom line the risk is on the buyer regardless of which way he or she chooses to go.

 

[bigbull338]

we all know when bulls get high priced some breeders get lax with the knife.so they dont cut all low end bulls.

 

[TexasBred]

we all know when bulls get high priced some breeders get lax with the knife.so they dont cut all low end bulls.

Half the bulls in this country are not purebred. Many have no idea what they are other than they're black or red. See them standing in pastures every day.

 

[cowgirl8]

we all know when bulls get high priced some breeders get lax with the knife.so they dont cut all low end bulls.

Half the bulls in this country are not purebred. Many have no idea what they are other than they're black or red. See them standing in pastures every day.

There is a guy on the way to town who has the strangest looking bull. I have no idea what he is. Daughter has cows bordering this herd, says they never wean, they just leave everybody together. And when i'm told here that my cattle arent consistent, i picture this herd in my head. Maybe why i get a little angry. Anywho, if i can get a picture of this bull i will. I may be wrong and he's a actual breed, but he looks char, but not, hes a puddy color...We have a few brown cows, but never one the color this bull is. Was he ugly, not really, he was very interesting looking. Calves are crap though...

 

[branguscowgirl]

Muddy, you shouldn't talk too loudly, yet you always do. So far I've only seen 2 pictures of your animals, which as far as I can tell are a box of crayons as well... The 'best heifer' is what I'd call 'fair', your best calf is a nice steer, I will say that... but for the standards you set for other people's cattle I don't see the reflection in your herd.

This was very well said Nesi.

 

[Muddy]

Muddy, you shouldn't talk too loudly, yet you always do. So far I've only seen 2 pictures of your animals, which as far as I can tell are a box of crayons as well... The 'best heifer' is what I'd call 'fair', your best calf is a nice steer, I will say that... but for the standards you set for other people's cattle I don't see the reflection in your herd.

This was very well said Nesi.

and brought up a dead thread for no reason. Also I already explained why my herd isn't perfect but I can noticed the difference between older bull's calves and the young bull's calves. We are disappointed in the older bull so he is sold as slaughter bull and we are gonna using the young bull's full brother on the whole herd next year. Sure I have few red cows but its not that hard to turning them black and these belted cows are what, 90-97% Angus.

 

[quartermeter]

If anyone in the central Tennessee area is interested I know where there is a 4 year old registered bull that is the son of Soo Line Motive. they want $3500 for him. I bought a bull out of that ($3500) bull and he was halter broke for $2500. Call me and I'll give you his number. He is a honest fellow and easy to deal with. Jim 931-993-7768

 

[etmountianman71]

There have been some interesting points and some single minded points in this thread. So my two cents worth might not even equal a penny.
It is part of the breeders position to have pride in the quality of animals raised (bull or heifer), especially if that animal is to be sold to another individual, does everyone take part in that? I would say "NO". Whether it is a small "weekender" or a "large scale" breeder, the thought is to make a quick buck for some. That mentality is seen in other businesses as well, a quick example is car lots, some good ones and some bad ones.
If you as a breeder take pride in your animals and the quality of your animals are good and proven then there is no reason Not to sell a "purebred" or a "mongrel" to any individual, as long as you are honest with that person and do not misrepresent that animal. The buyer is the one who is taking the Risk for their herd (being 2 cows or 200).
The biggest issue I have seen from individuals or sale barns is the misrepresentation of a bull just to raise the price. Example is when an auctioneer/ seller is promoting a cows bred back to a good black bull, your gonna get good black hided calves, good Angus background, when the bull might be a Balancer or Gelbvieh.
Culling bull calves is a must, some do not have the makings to be a good bull, herd sire or backyard hobby, that falls on the breeder/farmer to make that decision. Then he/she is providing the best animal to the buyers.
There are alot and if your in the commercial business then you have seen that as well, of people who do not know what a good bull is and will judge strictly by what is told to them by the seller, so again it is the responsibility of the seller to be honest, then let the buyer make the decision.
Purebred bulls on mixed cows, mixed bulls on purebred cows, or mixed bulls on mixed cows all are going to produce calves (some better than others in frame size, weight, and appearance) but bottom line they will still all sell at the end of the day so we can meet the market demands, high priced or low priced. Hopefully high priced since we do not see the price drop in the store but that is for another discussion. :bang:

 

[C-Ranch]

This thread is a few weeks old, but went to a bull sale yesterday and from what the bulls were selling for you wouldn't even know cattle prices were down. I was surprised as were other buyers I spoke to. Bottom line is if you want good genetics and a good calf crop its going to cost you.

 

[talltimber]

Here as well. Went to a production sale last weekend. Bulls from 2k to 5700 or so. Most of them in the 2700 to 3500 range I'd say, handful 4k and handful 5k plus. Registered pairs 7yo mostly about the same cost range. Bred heifers 2400 to 2900.

Show me Select bred heifer sale ( a number of pre requisites to meet for those that don't know about it). 2050 to 3900. Both registered and commercial crosses, some clipped and flashy black mottle faced F1 ANG/HFD and some lean,ratty haired, ruffled, right off a pot from KC area, but with potential. (sale in SEMO). They will come out with the results, or may already have, but from memory - Most by far were really nice looking heifers, so much that I called to check the availability of a trailer. Every lot I would have brought home was 2400 plus. Most were in the 2300 to say 2800 or 2900 range, depending. I never raised my hand due to a self-imposed price ceiling. Maybe in the spring. :roll:

 

[Stocker Steve]

Bull prices seem to be holding here. Maybe down 10%. It would be penny wise to go with the wrong male genetics.
Bred heifer prices are inconsistent. I think some commercial producers have decided they can not afford spendy unproven females.

 

[Kingfisher]

Looking at a sale report in this months Cattleman. 130 Hereford bulls avg $7269. 445 Angus bulls avg $8665. Tell me this though. How do 12 44 Farms featured heifers avg $54,375!?! 34 open heifers avg$10,515 ?!? How do you make your money back on those? Flushing?

 

[ram]

The bull prices at the Calhoun bull evaluation centers annual sale was $1,000.+ per head average less than the previous year. The sale was held Friday Dec.6, and there were a few bull consignors that were unhappy with the prices. I guess the $4-500. less were seeing on our calves is trickling down.