horned or polled

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

Many have heard it said that horned cattle are better than their polled counterparts in many breeds.

I have often heard it said that when the bred of the horns they also bred off the butts.

My question is, do you think this is still true? Are horned cattle still better than their polled counterparts? Or have polled cattle become the norm and are just as good if not better now.

 

[TEhayandcattle]

We run Beefmaster and I like Gerts too, I have alot of polled animals and they seem to have as much tailend as the horned ones, never heard that one before, Guess I'll look closer tomorrow, but sounds like a rumor to me.

 

[BC]

I think years ago (and I mean 35 or more years) that statement was probably true. Polled Herefords have made tremendous strides and now are as thick as their horned cousins. Because of dehorning issues and animal rights, a lot of breeders have been developing polled cattle that are very good. As I get older, I now use polled bulls to naturally dehorn cattle which to me is one of the toughest husbandry practices we do. A lot more traumatic than castration.

 

[novatech]

I would prefer polled. Unfortunately there is just not enogh genetics to select from in the my breed of choice.
Done early dehorning cannot be any more traumatic than getting your baby circumcised.

 

[TexasBred]

Don't allow anything with horns on my place for any reason.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I think years ago (and I mean 35 or more years) that statement was probably true. Polled Herefords have made tremendous strides and now are as thick as their horned cousins. Because of dehorning issues and animal rights, a lot of breeders have been developing polled cattle that are very good. As I get older, I now use polled bulls to naturally dehorn cattle which to me is one of the toughest husbandry practices we do. A lot more traumatic than castration.

you'r right.they were better, but it was probably due too single trait selection, working on the head and lettin' the ass go

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Yes, years ago (35 years) when POLLED was the ONLY trait being selected for - you lost quality. Anytime breeders run after a single trait, they sacrifice other traits.
Don't think it is true anymore. Polled is so "normal" in most breeds, it is definately not a single trait being chased (in most breeds!)

 

[bigbull338]

i agree when people was breeding for polled cattle.they bred the meat off their rearends.but now the polled cattle has as much rearends as the horned.i to breed reg beefmasters.an i run both polled an horned cows an bulls.the bull im using now is polled.an the bull im raising is horned.an i have both polled an horned cows.im picking cows on their bloodlines for my herd.not if they are horned or polled.

 

[dun]

Chasing the polled gene is just like chasing the color. If that's the primary selection criteria it's a losing proposition.

 

[funky 4-Her]

We have always used a polled bull.
Before we got out of dairy we started using polled genetics too.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

So does anyone still think polled cattle are inferior to their horned counterparts within that same breed.

 

[ANAZAZI]

So does anyone still think polled cattle are inferior to their horned counterparts within that same breed.

Most certainly in my opinion. It is in fact possible to sell rather bad bulls on the fact that they are polled, whilst it is difficult to sell well developed but undehorned bulls with real rearend muscle!

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Depends on the breed. There are very few horned cattle in the Purebred Simmental herds. Polleds are equally good and better as any horned you might run across - in the Simmental breed.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

alot of cattlemen given the choice would pick a sorry polled , over a thick horned just for the convenience of not having to dehorn and the dock for not dehorning.. i'll admit the best dehorner ive came across is a polled bull,,, but im partial to the horned bull's. but i wouldnt use them in a crossbred situation any more.

 

[bbyou]

I've also heard the the suggestion that polled animals carry less bone and smaller rumps than their horned counterparts. I don't know if this is true or not. Although given the opportunity to choose between two otherwise identical animals, one polled and the other horned, I would pick the polled animal simply for the convenience of not having to dehorn the calves. Many of my commercial bull buyers also purchase bulls using this method of decision.

I have also heard that polledness is a dominant trait, there are no "hidden" recessive polled genes in horned animals. A horned animal out of one or even two polled parents does not carry the polled gene.

This is not to say that horned animals are not desirable.

You can use the following to help when determining the probability of polledness in cattle. Letters are used in clinical genetics to represent alleles or different forms of a particular gene. This is a single gene trait, so each animal has two alleles - one from each parent. Since polled is dominant it gets the big P and since horns is recessive, it gets the little p.

pp: This animal has horns. An animal must have two genes for horns to have horns.
Pp: This animal would be polled, and carry a recessive gene for horns.
PP: This animal is polled, and does not carry the gene for horns.

Horned(pp) X Horned(pp) =All horned(pp) offspring.

Polled(Pp) X Horned(pp) = 1/2 polled(Pp), 1/2 horned(pp) offspring.

Polled(Pp) X Polled(Pp) = 1/4 polled(PP), 1/2 polled(Pp), 1/4 horned(pp) offspring You will not be able to tell the PP and Pp animals apart, as they are both polled.

Homozygous polled(PP) X Horned(pp) = All polled(Pp) offspring.

Homozygous polled(PP) X Homozygous Polled(PP) = All homozygous polled(PP) offspring.

This is my understanding of Polled vs. Horned genetics. Please do your own research to verify the validity.
Hope this helps.

 

[alftn]

I think if you for example used a Black Angus to knock the horn off in a breed up program , there is no difference. But if you obtained polled cattle through natural mutations , because of the small numbers thus small gene pool it takes several years of culling to get back to the qualith of the horned stock...The Herefords are a good example, but after nearly 80 years, I think the polls are as good as the Horned in herefords ....

 

[mitch2]

The "saying" I have heard in regards to horned vs polled is horned...have better bone or something to that effect.

Logically thinking, I think that can make sense....

Holsteins... need good bone

I haven't heard of them trying to make them polled. But then again, I don't know a lot about dairy, just always see hostein calves with the holes in their head...

Michele

 

[saintgert]

When both the Santa Gertrudis national champions were polled in 2006-2007, I would certainly say that the polled genes are just as good as the horned genes (although I'm know both pedigrees did have horned genetics at least at some point--Shana Red 492 goes back to Nine Bar 5636 and DCR 604). Around here (North Carolina, Kentucky, and Georgia), polled Santa Gertrudis almost always bring more money than their horned counterparts.

 

[lucky7chief]

I grew up on a dairy farm with Holtsteins. I was always told they couldn't find enough polleds. When we made the switch to beef cattle we decided to never dehorn again. Taking care of the infections or maggots was always the worst.

We just went from a bull that was scurred to a double polled and our calves look better. I agree that there may be some inferior bulls out there just because they are polled, but the top end genetics have no difference.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

There has been a lot Limi bulls that should have been cut, but were not because they were polled. I think the herfords were most likely that way to and in other breeds as well.