Holistic management practices

[chippie]

I know a family that believes in holistic medicine and care for their animals. They have horses, dogs and cats. They do not vaccinate and try to treat all ailments with herbs and whatever else is involved with holistic medicine. They had a horse colic and the poor thing suffered for days until the mother broke down and admitted what she was doing was not giving the horse any relief. They hauled it to the vet and it collapsed. Twisted intestine. I felt so sorry for the horse. What a way to go.

 

[alftn]

I pay 25 a roll for hay , pretty good stuff..but the way mine waste hay, I be scared they poop on all of it...I do when the weather is not going to rain for a few day, unroll a roll , I like the way that works ,a s long as it doesnot rain on it... Hey A T do not wear no drawers, alot of us old vets do not, nothing to wad up buddy...

 

[Aaron]

http://www.agriculture.gov.sk.ca/Default.aspx?DN=7d86096d-566b-4c5d-b9c6-7019b64b9728

Aaron, Thanks for the link. I actually tried that a couple years ago ("hay corral") but will not do it again. I still have an area of weird weeds under where those bales were fed. A lot of wasted expensive purchased hay.

I feed hay in several different types of feeders in a "sacrifice area". In the spring I move the cattle onto regular rotational pastures around May 1 in WI. I then scrape up the area with a manure fork/bucket and make a couple compost piles with the saturated waste and manure.

This really reduces in volume over the summer and the internal heat seems to kill any weed seeds. In the fall about now last winter's piles are ready to spread wherever I want them - back on pastures, on harvested corn ground, garden areas, orchard, wherever and it is super stuff.

Bale grazing may work for others with their own hay and larger areas. It is not suited to my operation. Thanks again.

Jim

Without the use of hay rings, waste is excessive. I refer to people who let the animals have a free-for-all with the entire hay crop as plain lazy. To eliminate weeds in your fields, allow at least a 2 year rest period, where you let the surrounding grass choke out the weeds.

For the backgrounding calves, I have a 4 acre field with about 150 bales in a 12x13 grid with 30' centers. Bales are together in bunches of 4 bales, separated with electric wires from the rest. :cowboy:

 

[S&WSigma40VEShooter]

http://www.agriculture.gov.sk.ca/Default.aspx?DN=7d86096d-566b-4c5d-b9c6-7019b64b9728

Aaron, Thanks for the link. I actually tried that a couple years ago ("hay corral") but will not do it again. I still have an area of weird weeds under where those bales were fed. A lot of wasted expensive purchased hay.

I feed hay in several different types of feeders in a "sacrifice area". In the spring I move the cattle onto regular rotational pastures around May 1 in WI. I then scrape up the area with a manure fork/bucket and make a couple compost piles with the saturated waste and manure.

This really reduces in volume over the summer and the internal heat seems to kill any weed seeds. In the fall about now last winter's piles are ready to spread wherever I want them - back on pastures, on harvested corn ground, garden areas, orchard, wherever and it is super stuff.

Bale grazing may work for others with their own hay and larger areas. It is not suited to my operation. Thanks again.

Jim

Without the use of hay rings, waste is excessive. I refer to people who let the animals have a free-for-all with the entire hay crop as plain lazy. To eliminate weeds in your fields, allow at least a 2 year rest period, where you let the surrounding grass choke out the weeds.

For the backgrounding calves, I have a 4 acre field with about 150 bales in a 12x13 grid with 30' centers. Bales are together in bunches of 4 bales, separated with electric wires from the rest. :cowboy:

What if the person does not have enough acreage to allow a two year resting period?

 

[SRBeef]

http://www.agriculture.gov.sk.ca/Default.aspx?DN=7d86096d-566b-4c5d-b9c6-7019b64b9728

Aaron, Thanks for the link. I actually tried that a couple years ago ("hay corral") but will not do it again. I still have an area of weird weeds under where those bales were fed. A lot of wasted expensive purchased hay.

I feed hay in several different types of feeders in a "sacrifice area". In the spring I move the cattle onto regular rotational pastures around May 1 in WI. I then scrape up the area with a manure fork/bucket and make a couple compost piles with the saturated waste and manure.

This really reduces in volume over the summer and the internal heat seems to kill any weed seeds. In the fall about now last winter's piles are ready to spread wherever I want them - back on pastures, on harvested corn ground, garden areas, orchard, wherever and it is super stuff.

Bale grazing may work for others with their own hay and larger areas. It is not suited to my operation. Thanks again.

Jim

Without the use of hay rings, waste is excessive. I refer to people who let the animals have a free-for-all with the entire hay crop as plain lazy. To eliminate weeds in your fields, allow at least a 2 year rest period, where you let the surrounding grass choke out the weeds.

For the backgrounding calves, I have a 4 acre field with about 150 bales in a 12x13 grid with 30' centers. Bales are together in bunches of 4 bales, separated with electric wires from the rest. :cowboy:

I've been controlling weeds, mostly thistle type, with occasional mowing over the summer. Cattle will eat anything when it is small. But whatever weed seed came in these hay corral bales (I don't buy hay from this source any more) seems to be low and comes back stronger after I mow it! And the cows don't like to eat it, even small. I'll just keep after it.

In the winter I let my two groups graze standing corn, the non corn group has some open area, all have access to the woods for protection but hay is fed in rings or feeders in one area only (near the road and gate). This keeps the sod damage over the winter to a minimum and leaves much of the winter manure in the area around the hay feeders. I know theoretically it would be better to have that manure spread over a wider area but from what I see in my situation the damage and negatives of bale grazing outweigh the positives and make it worthwhile to spend a day making compost piles in late spring. I have to thank a neighbor for turning me to this method.

The bale grazing may work for you, especially with the wires and limited access you describe. But I think it is probably more useful for larger acreage operations than mine. Thanks for your comments. Jim

 

[andybob]

I would say holistic management requires a lot more about thinking than doing. It tries to push you to consider what the long term effects of every decision a business makes might be. I think there a several useful concepts promoted including developing a plan and business goals (ie profit goals) at the beginning of the process and revisiting these frequently.

The book by Allen Savory in the online store in the link above is excellent reading, in my opinion, and would be as useful for non ag business owners as for the ag industry. It is really quite interesting.

I practiced holistic management in Zimbabwe, as gberry noted, this is about planning your operation as a "whole" Allan Savories' book is a good starting point, he worked many years as a biologist in the Rhodesian game department, and based much of his later research on his observations of the symbiotic relationships in the African bushveld, and how human activities effected these relationships.
When I took over the denuded land that I developed into my cattle and wildlife ranch, using holistic planning the scrub made way for grassland the eroded slopes regenerated their foliage and the erosion and runoff of rain reduced year on year. Creeks that had been dry began to flow again instead of just being rainwater 'drains', as the water cycle was restored. The game animals increased to profitable culling numbers, and the carrying capacity for the cattle improved vastly over 5 years of planned grazing. I still vaccinated where needed, used antibiotic for treating sick animals etc, this was not planned as a 'tree hugging' type of operation, though my choice of cattle and goat breeds was part of the planning for animals adapted to the environment, and low maintenence production (especially as I had a frequent military deployment schedule).
You set your own goals, constantly test your decisions, to ensure you are still on track toward those goals, and remain flexible enough to adjust your management to adapt to changing conditions. It is worth researching the principles especially in brittle southern environments.

 

[Aaron]

http://www.agriculture.gov.sk.ca/Default.aspx?DN=7d86096d-566b-4c5d-b9c6-7019b64b9728

Without the use of hay rings, waste is excessive. I refer to people who let the animals have a free-for-all with the entire hay crop as plain lazy. To eliminate weeds in your fields, allow at least a 2 year rest period, where you let the surrounding grass choke out the weeds.

For the backgrounding calves, I have a 4 acre field with about 150 bales in a 12x13 grid with 30' centers. Bales are together in bunches of 4 bales, separated with electric wires from the rest. :cowboy:

What if the person does not have enough acreage to allow a two year resting period?

If you can't let it rest for even one year, then your running too many cattle for the land you have. I have about 100 acres of stockpiled grazing to work with this fall/winter. If I had an extra 50 cows, I wouldn't have any at all. :cowboy:

 

[mulberrygrovefamfarm]

Dad and I started using some of the management ideas that are part of holistic management (unknown to us) about 12 years ago and have played around from there, to the point of this year, when I say that I am now part of the holistic management 'types'.

I have a slug of photos to take later this fall to show all of the things I have been working on this summer, all focused around holistic management ideas.

The short idea behind holistic management is: improve your land, improve your profit, improve your life - with livestock being the driving force behind those improvements. It sounds hippie, but it's not. It's rational thinking in an irrational industry. It blends well with my management philosophy for beef cattle, so it was an easy switch for me.

You have to be prepared to think long-term in order to make it work.

Rotational grazing, stockpiled grazing and bale grazing are all part of holistic management.

One of NR's neighbours is one of the top men on the subject. :cowboy:

As Aaron said and I would add:
A key concept of holistic management is goal setting to include things that normally aren't included in goal setting which if used will help avoid unintended consequences. Maximizing profit - when established as your only goal - can come at the expense of family/friends/farm ground/business longevity/customers even though you meet your goal. Setting inclusive goals and checking against those goals is a key aspect of holistic mgt.

 

[john250]

Management is management.

 

[options]

What is half a$$ to some works well for others, there college boy, to bad you know it all , you might learn something.....Just because I do not use some one way does not mean they are wrong...just different....I know a old man 82 that runs about 15 cows on 70 ac. of the best fescue that you have ever seen, no vac, no med, no worming, no castratuion, everything wrong....but with his stodking rate he feeds ,no grain, no hay,no minerals....Does every thing wrong in my opinion, mixed up every type of cow and a 600$ sale barn bull to boot...It works for him,and I have hauled 12 head to the sale barn for him in the last couple of months,believe it or not they were some nice calves...I got him to get rid of the bull he had(white mostly it some liver/cream spots on him) He bought a sale barner Bull yesterday( a friend of mine own the trenton sale barn)he pick for hime 1100 lbs young black angus from a reg. breeder that cull him, for 58 cents a lbs...I have to admit the bull was nice looking,long, tall, just alittle thin....next year his calves may not be as large as the cont. cross but I bet they will be more uniform.

I ain't no college boy but a 15% death loss ain't the right way for sure.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Without the use of hay rings, waste is excessive. I refer to people who let the animals have a free-for-all with the entire hay crop as plain lazy. To eliminate weeds in your fields, allow at least a 2 year rest period, where you let the surrounding grass choke out the weeds. quote]

With good hay and rings they will slick it up enough that the grass will come back the next spring.
With poorer hay you end up with some compost and a ring of weeds the next year, but a mower can take care of that.
The bigger issue in the north can be finding fields with enough windbreaks for mid winter feeding.

 

[Aaron]

I prefer to run the field over with harrows in spring. Spread everything out and choke out the heavy concentrations of weeds. Wind break may be of concern in large open areas. I have enough bush left around that I can get the cows shoved into some hole. :cowboy:

 

[Stocker Steve]

I prefer to run the field over with harrows in spring. Spread everything out and choke out the heavy concentrations of weeds. Wind break may be of concern in large open areas. I have enough bush left around that I can get the cows shoved into some hole. :cowboy:

I have tried putting some seed down before running over it with the harrow?

 

[fargus]

We've bale grazed, but it is modified from what you guys can do out in Stratton and the upper midwest States. I'll dump 3-4 days worth of feed on top of the snow, cut the strings and walk away. The goal is to get the cows to fill up a couple of times, and then let 'em go hungry for the last half day. It forces them to go back and pick through what they trampled down and eat as much as possible. Once you get them trained they don't waste any more than they do in the yard. Next time I go to feed I move to another patch of field.

We do it this way so if the weather turns really wet and mucky I can feed the girls in the barn. It cuts our costs (less straw, less manure to spread in spring, same amount of feed) I prefer that to baling and leaving the hay sit, we get enough rain that putting it in a hay shed cuts our waste down considerably. We still get a mat of decomposing stuff in the spring, but it will regenerate within a year and is far more productive than the bluegrass that was there before. Moving the cows through your rotation fast makes a difference too... if they're only in for a day or two before moving on they don't damage the newly established forages.

 

[flyingS]

Isn't the point of bale grazing to avoid the cost of feeding hay? I assumed that people that feed this way plan to intensively graze the regrowth on their meadow or field as well as the bales. I have a neighbor that grazes small squares with stockers and cows. He will turn 500 or so stockers into a meadow and let the calves graze once they have cleaned up the bales he moves them. There is virtually no waste and defineately no weeds. The small squares eliminate the competition for feed so you don't get cattle tromping one small area and they do not lay and crap in it either. The true savings is in the cost of equipment to put it up and he does not have to yard it or feed it. The return is showing in increased gain with substantially less input than previous years of feeding stacked hay.

 

[fargus]

That works if you don't get 4+ feet of snow in the winter. Those momma cows can't find small squares under that much snow, and with how wet we are it would be black by the time they get there. I dump round bales on top of the snow, they waste less that way. It is a cheaper way to feed cows than in a barn for the winter... unfortunately our environment doesn't allow us to do "true" bale grazing or swath grazing like they do further west.

 

[1982vett]

Isn't the point of bale grazing to avoid the cost of feeding hay? I assumed that people that feed this way plan to intensively graze the regrowth on their meadow or field as well as the bales. I have a neighbor that grazes small squares with stockers and cows. He will turn 500 or so stockers into a meadow and let the calves graze once they have cleaned up the bales he moves them. There is virtually no waste and defineately no weeds. The small squares eliminate the competition for feed so you don't get cattle tromping one small area and they do not lay and crap in it either. The true savings is in the cost of equipment to put it up and he does not have to yard it or feed it. The return is showing in increased gain with substantially less input than previous years of feeding stacked hay.

FlyingS, I suspect you are in an area that might get little to no rain during this time? Bale grazing definitely doesn't work everywhere. Since our drought has broken (for now) in September, we have had 18 inches of rain and fairly warm temperatures. Haven't had the need to feed any hay yet so any small square bales that would have been left out to bale graze would be a bunch of rotting junk fit only for the cows to play with and a "dry" spot to lay on. If we go to the trouble to bale the hay, the cost of feeding it is negligible to the "loss cost" of leaving it in the field to bale graze. Local climate dictates what will and will not work efficiently.

So far, I've got a half acre of oats per cow planted. Needs about another week or two of root growth before I start grazing. Might dry up enought to get more planted later in the week if the sunny forecast holds. Winter pasture supplemented with hay is the way here.
You see, our mud season is just starting and will last till yours probably begins.

 

[fargus]

Isn't the point of bale grazing to avoid the cost of feeding hay? I assumed that people that feed this way plan to intensively graze the regrowth on their meadow or field as well as the bales. I have a neighbor that grazes small squares with stockers and cows. He will turn 500 or so stockers into a meadow and let the calves graze once they have cleaned up the bales he moves them. There is virtually no waste and defineately no weeds. The small squares eliminate the competition for feed so you don't get cattle tromping one small area and they do not lay and crap in it either. The true savings is in the cost of equipment to put it up and he does not have to yard it or feed it. The return is showing in increased gain with substantially less input than previous years of feeding stacked hay.

FlyingS, I suspect you are in an area that might get little to no rain during this time? Bale grazing definitely doesn't work everywhere. Since our drought has broken (for now) in September, we have had 18 inches of rain and fairly warm temperatures. Haven't had the need to feed any hay yet so any small square bales that would have been left out to bale graze would be a bunch of rotting junk fit only for the cows to play with and a "dry" spot to lay on. If we go to the trouble to bale the hay, the cost of feeding it is negligible to the "loss cost" of leaving it in the field to bale graze. Local climate dictates what will and will not work efficiently.

So far, I've got a half acre of oats per cow planted. Needs about another week or two of root growth before I start grazing. Might dry up enought to get more planted later in the week if the sunny forecast holds. Winter pasture supplemented with hay is the way here.
You see, our mud season is just starting and will last till yours probably begins.

Pretty well says it. We obviously can't do winter pasture here, but by putting bales on top of the snow in different parts of the field they spread their own manure, which is surprisingly costly if you choose to do it with diesel fuel and iron. Assuming it is dry and not too windy they will lay out on the snow as well, so we use a LOT less straw, another cost savings whether you are buying straw or baling your own.