Holistic management practices

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TexasBred

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Use to deal with a sweet little older lady who claimed to be a Herbal Doctor. Had a million questions. Finally killed all her goats giving them copper sulfate for worms.
 
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Angus Cowman

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The only thing I leared from the link White cows put up was where to donate money
I think this is another Gimic to get peoples money and use as a advertising ploy to the people who don't know better (kinda like GRASSFED BEEF)
I think any of us that practice good management do this same thing
1 don't overstock
2 don't overgraze ( pasture rotations and rest periods between grazing)
3 help fight erosion in watershed areas
4 use a little common sense
 

Red Bull Breeder

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I think we are all doing some of that holistic management. If we are dry like vette was we pray for rain. Wet like we are, pray for it to stop. If we are short on hay we pray for a early spring. And you can always pray for higher prices for cattle.
 

whitecow

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I don't claim to be a proponent of holistic management nor do I oppose it. Just trying to provide info and, yes, upon closer inspection, the link I provided doesn't give much useful information. Seems you need to "pay" to learn.

Anyway, I think those who claim to be practicing holistic management are typically mob grazing, not using chemical fertilizers or herbicides, etc.

They often mention names like Greg Judy and Joel Salatin.
 
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Angus Cowman

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Red Bull Breeder":zzckcdro said:
I think we are all doing some of that holistic management. If we are dry like vette was we pray for rain. Wet like we are, pray for it to stop. If we are short on hay we pray for a early spring. And you can always pray for higher prices for cattle.
OH no if Vette was using Holistic Management practices he would of had lush green grass all thru his drought and been the envy of all his neighbors
 

1982vett

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Angus Cowman":1y6hm0ju said:
Red Bull Breeder":1y6hm0ju said:
I think we are all doing some of that holistic management. If we are dry like vette was we pray for rain. Wet like we are, pray for it to stop. If we are short on hay we pray for a early spring. And you can always pray for higher prices for cattle.
OH no if Vette was using Holistic Management practices he would of had lush green grass all thru his drought and been the envy of all his neighbors
Scared to death to ask for a little dry weather now. :shock: Still haven't found out who did that several years ago. Pretty much hitting the extreme in the other direction now. Beginning to think the "rain makers" need to get a new sense of humor. I'll bet they start playing with the thermostat next. :)
 

TexasBred

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Angus Cowman":23lemiol said:
Red Bull Breeder":23lemiol said:
I think we are all doing some of that holistic management. If we are dry like vette was we pray for rain. Wet like we are, pray for it to stop. If we are short on hay we pray for a early spring. And you can always pray for higher prices for cattle.
OH no if Vette was using Holistic Management practices he would of had lush green grass all thru his drought and been the envy of all his neighbors

If vette had listened to edsimms he'd have had the right grasses growing lushly all during that drought as well. :lol2:
 

SRBeef

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I think the word "holistic" comes more from "whole" than "Holy" as in a religious sense.

I am not familiar with the term so looked it up and came up with this link.

http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/PDF/holistic.pdf

While the language initially sounds a little "tree-hugger", once you read on I thought it sounds fairly reasonable.

For example, this publication contrasts "holistic" management's goal as profit and compares to cash-flow management's goal as mostly centered on production....

Not taking sides here but it is food for thought if we can avoid the instant stereotype.

jmho. Jim
 
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Angus Cowman

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SRBeef":1jsh2yxc said:
I think the word "holistic" comes more from "whole" than "Holy" as in a religious sense.

I am not familiar with the term so looked it up and came up with this link.

http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/PDF/holistic.pdf

While the language initially sounds a little "tree-hugger", once you read on I thought it sounds fairly reasonable.
yes it sounds reasonanble but as I also said most of us that are in the cow business already practice alot of the concepts they are trying to promote as "Holistic" but they are not telling you the acres per cow their approach is taking as with the grass fed guys
yes I could grass feed my cattle but I would have to cut my numbers drastically for my land to sustain such an operation
I have several areas of my place that the cattle never see because of conservation and erosion control efforts that I have implemented
I just feel if a person uses good common sense mangement practices,stocking rates and conservation practices that we already do, we don't need someone labeling our type of operation
For example, this publication contrasts "holistic" management's goal as profit and compares to cash-flow management's goal as mostly centered on production....

Not taking sides here but it is food for thought if we can avoid the instant stereotype.

jmho. Jim
 

gberry

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I would say holistic management requires a lot more about thinking than doing. It tries to push you to consider what the long term effects of every decision a business makes might be. I think there a several useful concepts promoted including developing a plan and business goals (ie profit goals) at the beginning of the process and revisiting these frequently.

The book by Allen Savory in the online store in the link above is excellent reading, in my opinion, and would be as useful for non ag business owners as for the ag industry. It is really quite interesting.
 

Aaron

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Dad and I started using some of the management ideas that are part of holistic management (unknown to us) about 12 years ago and have played around from there, to the point of this year, when I say that I am now part of the holistic management 'types'.

I have a slug of photos to take later this fall to show all of the things I have been working on this summer, all focused around holistic management ideas.

The short idea behind holistic management is: improve your land, improve your profit, improve your life - with livestock being the driving force behind those improvements. It sounds hippie, but it's not. It's rational thinking in an irrational industry. It blends well with my management philosophy for beef cattle, so it was an easy switch for me.

You have to be prepared to think long-term in order to make it work.

Rotational grazing, stockpiled grazing and bale grazing are all part of holistic management.

One of NR's neighbours is one of the top men on the subject. :cowboy:
 

SRBeef

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Aaron":3tnha29u said:
Dad and I started using some of the management ideas that are part of holistic management (unknown to us) about 12 years ago and have played around from there, to the point of this year, when I say that I am now part of the holistic management 'types'.

I have a slug of photos to take later this fall to show all of the things I have been working on this summer, all focused around holistic management ideas.

The short idea behind holistic management is: improve your land, improve your profit, improve your life - with livestock being the driving force behind those improvements. It sounds hippie, but it's not. It's rational thinking in an irrational industry. It blends well with my management philosophy for beef cattle, so it was an easy switch for me.

You have to be prepared to think long-term in order to make it work.

Rotational grazing, stockpiled grazing and bale grazing are all part of holistic management.

One of NR's neighbours is one of the top men on the subject. :cowboy:

Sounds interesting. What is "bale grazing"?

Jim
 

dun

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A lot of the hillbillys around here "bale graze". They'll hay a feild and never move the hay off, just turn the cows in to destroy the bales.
 

TexasBred

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dun":msym62wu said:
A lot of the hillbillys around here "bale graze". They'll hay a feild and never move the hay off, just turn the cows in to destroy the bales.

Ain't you glad they dont' call you to come cut it and bale it next year. I know a guy that does it....one look at his place and you can tell he does everything that way...half a$$ed.
 

alftn

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What is half a$$ to some works well for others, there college boy, to bad you know it all , you might learn something.....Just because I do not use some one way does not mean they are wrong...just different....I know a old man 82 that runs about 15 cows on 70 ac. of the best fescue that you have ever seen, no vac, no med, no worming, no castratuion, everything wrong....but with his stodking rate he feeds ,no grain, no hay,no minerals....Does every thing wrong in my opinion, mixed up every type of cow and a 600$ sale barn bull to boot...It works for him,and I have hauled 12 head to the sale barn for him in the last couple of months,believe it or not they were some nice calves...I got him to get rid of the bull he had(white mostly it some liver/cream spots on him) He bought a sale barner Bull yesterday( a friend of mine own the trenton sale barn)he pick for hime 1100 lbs young black angus from a reg. breeder that cull him, for 58 cents a lbs...I have to admit the bull was nice looking,long, tall, just alittle thin....next year his calves may not be as large as the cont. cross but I bet they will be more uniform.
 

TexasBred

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What is half a$$ to some works well for others, there college boy, to bad you know it all , you might learn something.....Just because I do not use some one way does not mean they are wrong

No need to get your drawers in a wad stud. Different methods of operating is one thing. Half ass is half ass anyway you look at it. A person can always do "ok" in his own mind doing it "his way" but did ever wonder what he would accomplish if he did it better??? But then maybe you're always happy with a half a loaf.
 

SRBeef

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Aaron":1mpsp6dg said:
http://www.agriculture.gov.sk.ca/Default.aspx?DN=7d86096d-566b-4c5d-b9c6-7019b64b9728

Aaron, Thanks for the link. I actually tried that a couple years ago ("hay corral") but will not do it again. I still have an area of weird weeds under where those bales were fed. A lot of wasted expensive purchased hay.

I feed hay in several different types of feeders in a "sacrifice area". In the spring I move the cattle onto regular rotational pastures around May 1 in WI. I then scrape up the area with a manure fork/bucket and make a couple compost piles with the saturated waste and manure.

This really reduces in volume over the summer and the internal heat seems to kill any weed seeds. In the fall about now last winter's piles are ready to spread wherever I want them - back on pastures, on harvested corn ground, garden areas, orchard, wherever and it is super stuff.

Bale grazing may work for others with their own hay and larger areas. It is not suited to my operation. Thanks again.

Jim
 

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