Hoff First Edition

[Caustic Burno]

Still got it in your head that I'm some sort of scientist, LA?

That's real funny.

The truth is I had enough friends and some family get burned buying into the Angus BS.

I decided to scrap most of what I knew about them, and look around, and really learn for myself, instead of just repeating BS w/o experience, like 95% of the Angus breeders.


Got tired of Hoff Bred cattle, and the horns and scurs they brought. Got tired of their size and what it did to our neighbors.

I finally wised up enough to ask the good questions, instead of just repeating mindless Angus BS. And that is what it is, mindless crap.

Real surprised to see a RA guy buying into it though. The RA guys tend to be wiser and more conservative than the Angus breeders, but there is one in every bunch, I guess.

mtnman

I have followed this and now I am going to turn my dog loose.
First Mtman need to learn a thing or two as there is not one breed today that resembles what it looked like in the 50's.
You sound like you are jealous of what the Angus people have done, my hats are off to them. They have out thought us on every front until recently. They have done such a good job everyone was trying to copy them except Herfs and Brammers.
The American retailer has bought into CAB hook line and sinker making there breed even more popular. That's why we have black Simm's Limm's Char's etc.
IMO badmouthing Cattlemen that have out produced you seems petty or your mangement is not able to compete.
There is only one way to beat them and thats on grade start producing better cattle. The industry can never beat them as long as it keeps following Angus.

 

[la4angus]

Still got it in your head that I'm some sort of scientist, LA?That's real funny.mtnman

No mtnjerk. I doubt that anyone has ever accused you of being any kind of scientist. That must some more of your dreaming. :lol: :lol: Geez how dumb could you be. You are as big a joke as there is on here. Now go play with your teddy bears before you take a nap.

 

[mtnman]

LA, you are the one that always worries about me going to the office, don't try to twist this thing around.

BTW, there folks, we use more Angus bulls than anything.

They are necessary.

They bring calving ease for first calvers, though we do use some Continentals, too.

And they bring marbling.

The Continentals bring everything else.

I'm very well aware that all breeds have changed since the 70's, or earlier. Some for the better, and some for the worse.

Angus, probably for the worse. To big, too much growth, too much milk. They are so much more impractical now in the whole system than they used to be. Herefords, are about 7/8 the same way.

All the Continentals are way more useful in the totality of things than they were 30 years ago.

If we could take the Angus of 30-40 years ago, and cross them with the Continentals of today, we would really be on to something good.

mtnman

 

[greenwillowherefords]

I'm not joining this argument, just pointing out that you can do exactly what you speak of by AIing to the old Angus you are speaking of with your modern continental cows. Let us know how it works when you do.

 

[BRG]

MTNMN,
I am looking to the future. I am not on any side here. I do with my program what helps out my customer from the beginning to the end. I stated that the feedlots are our customers, because they are. In the near future they will be buying cattle with a past history, or dock cattle that doesn't have a history. I truly believe that. So I am working with as many feedlots as I can so my customers can still get paid for their cattle. This next down cycle is going to be different than any other down cycle we have ever seen before and we all better have our ducks in a row when it gets here. So to say that I am on the feeders side is nonsense. I just want to make sure we are supplying what they want. As far as making the cow profitable. I have not fed my cows any hay this winter(ok, 1 & 1/2 weeks when we had a snow and ice storm.) Now we just started giving them a little protein. My cows are 1300 to 1400 lbs. The calves never get any creep, and we always wean off 700lbs Red Angus calves. So I have to say that these cow & weights are profitable. This is what my customers want and need in our enviroment. So it is profitable for them too.

Why would you say that if I am not careful, I may get my papers pulled??? Everything I do is honest and straight forward!!!

 

[SEC]

Bottom line is there is a type of cattle we can use within any breed. Of course there are some genetics that most will steer away from.

Mtnkid, if you are wanting less size, milk etc. You just have to look for it, don't badmouth everyone else because you have captured a breed with a style. There is something for everyone, maybe what you are looking for isn't mainstream.

 

[buckaroo_bif]

I think Hoff First Edition is an outstanding bull I'll be looking at him more at semen ordering time.

 

[plbcattle]

LA, how can you argue with someone who said the following: The truth is I had enough friends and some family get burned buying into the Angus BS.

I decided to scrap most of what I knew about them, and look around, and really learn for myself, instead of just repeating BS w/o experience, like 95% of the Angus breeders.

What's next:Angus hasn't done anything for cattle breeds. the CAB is a bunch of crap, your bull is to big, your cattle require to much feed.
Angus has done more than every other breed of cattle combined to make market conditions what they are today.

La, Nice bull and his offspring are nice. I don't even raise angus but I enjoy and respect quality.

 

[la4angus]

LA, how can you argue with someone who said the following: The truth is I had enough friends and some family get burned buying into the Angus BS.

I decided to scrap most of what I knew about them, and look around, and really learn for myself, instead of just repeating BS w/o experience, like 95% of the Angus breeders.

What's next:Angus hasn't done anything for cattle breeds. the CAB is a bunch of crap, your bull is to big, your cattle require to much feed.
Angus has done more than every other breed of cattle combined to make market conditions what they are today.

plb the main thing to remember is never argue with idiots as they will try to bring you down to their level. IMO the person that made these comments is an idiot and doesn't know enough about cattle to warrant arguing with him. My thoughts are that if we could take all of his knowledge about cattle and put it into a thimble it wouldn't fill it 1/2 full. He does a good job of running down the most successful Angus breeders and the Angus breed as a whole. IMO this shows how little he does know about cattle and the Angus breed.

La, Nice bull and his offspring are nice. I don't even raise angus but I enjoy and re
spect quality.

Thanks for the comments about First Edition. He is gaining in popularity every day.

 

[mtnman]

Hey LA, maybe it shows the opposite.

mtnman

 

[BRG]

mntnmn,
By the way, the 15 sons of First addition that you said were way to big, just averaged $3100, when the other 21 bulls from different sires in the sale averaged $1950. I guess the good cattleman of North Dakota don't really know how to ranch either. huh, interesting

 

[lakading]

Hey LA, maybe it shows the opposite.

mtnman

No.

 

[mtnman]

History is full of high dollar sons of bulls that within a few years produced sons that were just cut with a knife.

Tell me again how many Integrity sons GAR are selling this Spring? That's right -------1, one!!!

Tell me how many high dollar sons the $250,000 Watchman produced after he sold in the 60's? None?

Too soon to tell, BRG.

Given that you are a purebred marketer, though, I normally wouldn't trust your take anyway. Maybe you just talked them up more before you sold them? It is your job, right?

mtnman

 

[BRG]

So are you calling me a liar??????

 

[BRG]

I didn't have to talk them up more, it was abvious that they were better. Way more muscle, bone, length, middle, etc, etc, etc.

Doesn't matter what those other bulls sold for, this sale was from a guy who lives strictly on his cows, he doesn't do alot of promoting. His buyers are a bunch of cattlerman who don't give a dam about pedigree or hipe. All of the bulls sold to commercial cattleman, and nothing sold over $5200. No hipe, just good cattle that do it for his customers.

 

[topsquar]

Angus breeders in Australia are begining to avoid high profile Angus bulls from the USA semen sires, as the calves they are producing have no vitality or do ability ,when they are out in the paddock they are to soft=no good, The Land newspaper had an article on the subject some people are blaming Breed plan=EBV ,EPD the other problem is everyone is using the same semen sires, and it is reducing the gene pool all Angus cattle in Australia share 5% of there genetics with each other=related. ;-)

 

[la4angus]

Angus breeders in Australia are begining to avoid high profile Angus bulls from the USA semen sires, as the calves they are producing have no vitality or do ability ,when they are out in the paddock they are to soft=no good, The Land newspaper had an article on the subject some people are blaming Breed plan=EBV ,EPD the other problem is everyone is using the same semen sires, and it is reducing the gene pool all Angus cattle in Australia share 5% of there genetics with each other=related. ;-)

Hmmmm. I wonder what they're doing with all the First Edition semen that we're shipping to Australia and New Zealand.

 

[mtnman]

Just goes to show there are idiots to screw up the good in Angus on one more continent, LA.

No, BRG, I'm not calling you anything. I just like to think about the whole perspective.

mtnman

 

[aplusmnt]

History is full of high dollar sons of bulls that within a few years produced sons that were just cut with a knife.

Tell me again how many Integrity sons GAR are selling this Spring? That's right -------1, one!!!

Tell me how many high dollar sons the $250,000 Watchman produced after he sold in the 60's? None?

Too soon to tell, BRG.

Given that you are a purebred marketer, though, I normally wouldn't trust your take anyway. Maybe you just talked them up more before you sold them? It is your job, right?

mtnman

I would be curious to know what bulls you consider to be good bulls then? What breed do you use? What specific animals and blood lines are you using?

 

[mtnman]

Angus, Red Angus, Gelbvieh, Simmental, Tarentaise. Some Hereford.

Just depends on which brother is running the program on what ranch.

Each has their preferences. The ones most tied to listening to popular press magazines, and especially the AAA are the least profitable. The ones that listen to the breed associations that actually have to work to make customers, and have to work to learn the science behind the system are more profitable. The most successful breed association is the least knowledgable about the whole science picture, and how genetics interact within the total system.

mtnman