Jake
Well-known member
3waycross":jf3pby0g said:
Whenever a neighbor has had a bull like that I've never been lucky enough for it to be infertile. They usually are about like a jersey
Hereford bull
- Thread starter Calhoun Farm
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Whenever a neighbor has had a bull like that I've never been lucky enough for it to be infertile. They usually are about like a jersey
OP
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Calhoun Farm
Well-known member
We have plenty of grass and free choice mineral so I'm hoping to put some weight on him by early fall.
highgrit
Well-known member
Calhoun Farms I got one too. That's Knuckle Head he's 18 months old. He's bred 15 cows so far, and only one missed the first time. Your cows are going to get bred, and if the market holds your going to make some good money.
denvermartinfarms
Well-known member
So a person should only sell bred cows that are bred to a really good bull???. Friend it aint like he's breeding them to a jersey, longhorn, Holstein, ect. It's an ok lower quality bull.ANAZAZI":3o6jxst5 said:
I must say that the idea of a seller having a moral obligation to only breed his cows to a high end bull before selling, is quite possibly the most far out thing I have ever read on here, especially considering this particular bull.
artesianspringsfarm
Well-known member
denvermartinfarms":1pkpjvzx said:
Yea, I'm with DMF here. The only time you are ever doing wrong selling cattle is when you advertise it as something other than it is. Nothing wrong with breeding a sorry bull to a sorry cow and then selling the results.
Might not be your idea of a good time, and it's not mine, but it's also not immoral by any stretch of the imagination.denvermartinfarms":1twjyciy said:
Ok, the bull has more beef than a jersey, happy now? ;-)
The idea to treat others in the way you want to be treated is radical, I know.
It has been a radical idea for almost two millennia...
denvermartinfarms
Well-known member
I buy alot of bred cows every year and at best maybe 20% of the time do I know what they are bred to. how about buying good cows that are priced right and then figure the first calf as a mystery calf anyway, that's what I do. Now yes, if I was buying cows off a farm and was told they were bred to a good registered angus bull and then found out that they were all bred to a corriente, I would have then been lied to, and that's something I wouldn't 't liner or is it something I would ever do to someone else.
Calhoun Farm":30q08xyc said:
You have a much better idea of what you have than I do. In the photo he looks a little thin and there is a lack of musculature in the rump. A weak rear will always make an old guy wonder if he has bad hips. His overall shape and that little pocket near the middle of his back hint that he is one of the larger framed genetics who is a terminal bull that throws bigger calves. The largest cow around here is a Hereford that looks just like him. A few hundred dollars of feed would still leave you with a great bargain and it would pay dividends when it comes time to sell the group. Not everyone wants one of the giant heavyweight Herefords so he will need more eye appeal. Remember, he needs to be in breeding condition 60 days before you intend to use him because that is when he is making the sperm he will be using to inseminate your cows.
Hats off for having the set to engage in this type of discussion. I do not think you are immoral or unethical since you are selling the bull with the cows as a group. Like 3way said, caveat emptor.
highgrit
Well-known member
Funny thing is, someone is going to make money off the calves. Calhoun is going to make money off the cows. And that's why we do what we do.
denvermartinfarms
Well-known member
Exactly, no money is going to be lost on this bull, his calves or the cows he has bred. and if is is that close to losing money, then this bull wasn't the problem.highgrit":qbmuh2lx said:
OP
OP
Calhoun Farm
Well-known member
I think he's an "ok" bull for what I need him for. The way I look at it is like this, anyone buying bred cows from a salebarn is taking a risk (myself included). You have no idea what bull the cow is bred to so its a surprise when the calf drops. I don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong. I have a nice little set of hereford, angus, and char cows and plan to use this hereford bull to re-bred them before I sell them. The swed can his opinion and I have mine.
Whew.... throw a little water on this fire..... or maybe gasoline.
As cattle producers we all have a moral obligation to the next guy to try and produce the very best cattle we can produce. This little Hereford bull is representing the vast majority of the cattle producers in the US. Most of them try to buy their stock at the sale barn and get them bred to sale barn bought bulls and try to make a profit in some way. (My own personal opinion is that this is a big problem with the feeder calf market because guys that do this want the same money for their calves as the people who put in more time and effort to produce a better end product, but my opinion doesn't amount to much.)
If everyone would try to produce the best cattle they can reasonably produce then we cannot fault them on the way they do things as long as they are honest about what they have produced. People who buy all salebarn cattle and then breed them to sale barn bulls should get bottom tier prices for their calves. Im not saying that those are not good calves because many times there are good cattle sold through the sale barn that people can take advantage of if they are willing to take the risk. I sell all my old bulls through the sale barn and they are usually registered. Im not saying my old bulls are really good, but I do my homework and the bulls I do use are excellent in many traits and they could help many people move their cowherds in the right direction (IMHO). Many producers do this with their old bulls and there are some values to be had if you only need a bull for a short time and are willing to assume some risk. (bull may be infertile or injured) That same bull might just have gotten to the point that the producer has kept a lot of his daughters and is unwilling to linebreed any further so he is sold.
Whatever the case may be you should be honest with yourself and the other producers and expect to get paid for the type of animals you are presenting for sale. There is nothing wrong with someone using the young Hereford bull to breed a few cows and try to make a profit, in fact I applaud Calhoun Farm for attempting to do that, and I agree with most of the people on here that you will make money on the cows and the bull when you sell them. I would just ask that you are honest with the buyers when you sell them. If you are trying to build your own herd then being honest now will likely make an impression on the buyers that are present and you will have repeat customers in years to come just on honesty alone. Then its up to you to produce cattle that meet the needs of the buyer.
Just for the record whoever produced that Hereford bull has either lost his knife or his banders and someone needs to buy him another one. He would be better off in a feedlot than as a bull.
As cattle producers we all have a moral obligation to the next guy to try and produce the very best cattle we can produce. This little Hereford bull is representing the vast majority of the cattle producers in the US. Most of them try to buy their stock at the sale barn and get them bred to sale barn bought bulls and try to make a profit in some way. (My own personal opinion is that this is a big problem with the feeder calf market because guys that do this want the same money for their calves as the people who put in more time and effort to produce a better end product, but my opinion doesn't amount to much.)
If everyone would try to produce the best cattle they can reasonably produce then we cannot fault them on the way they do things as long as they are honest about what they have produced. People who buy all salebarn cattle and then breed them to sale barn bulls should get bottom tier prices for their calves. Im not saying that those are not good calves because many times there are good cattle sold through the sale barn that people can take advantage of if they are willing to take the risk. I sell all my old bulls through the sale barn and they are usually registered. Im not saying my old bulls are really good, but I do my homework and the bulls I do use are excellent in many traits and they could help many people move their cowherds in the right direction (IMHO). Many producers do this with their old bulls and there are some values to be had if you only need a bull for a short time and are willing to assume some risk. (bull may be infertile or injured) That same bull might just have gotten to the point that the producer has kept a lot of his daughters and is unwilling to linebreed any further so he is sold.
Whatever the case may be you should be honest with yourself and the other producers and expect to get paid for the type of animals you are presenting for sale. There is nothing wrong with someone using the young Hereford bull to breed a few cows and try to make a profit, in fact I applaud Calhoun Farm for attempting to do that, and I agree with most of the people on here that you will make money on the cows and the bull when you sell them. I would just ask that you are honest with the buyers when you sell them. If you are trying to build your own herd then being honest now will likely make an impression on the buyers that are present and you will have repeat customers in years to come just on honesty alone. Then its up to you to produce cattle that meet the needs of the buyer.
Just for the record whoever produced that Hereford bull has either lost his knife or his banders and someone needs to buy him another one. He would be better off in a feedlot than as a bull.
OP
OP
Calhoun Farm
Well-known member
Their's a big chance this "herd" will be sold separated at the salebarn. I have no issues letting anyone know that the cows will be bred to a young hereford bull. I have nothing to hide. I would entertain offers this winter if someone wanted a package deal, but I doubt that will happen. I'm just surprised at the guys here taking shots at my morals for breeding a bottom tier bull to cows. Like denver said he's not a dairy bull for heavens sake.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
Just be glad you ain't running for senate...Calhoun Farm":4q45znwk said:
thommoos
Well-known member
Calhoun,
Your post bring out the most responses i have seen in this forum. :tiphat: . The biggest arguement and bashing around. I am just impressed, I applaud your business plan to make quick buck nothing wrong with that. Everyone has to have a plan, good plan.
Your post bring out the most responses i have seen in this forum. :tiphat: . The biggest arguement and bashing around. I am just impressed, I applaud your business plan to make quick buck nothing wrong with that. Everyone has to have a plan, good plan.
OP
OP
Calhoun Farm
Well-known member
shaz":1y2c8zq3 said:
There is a guy up the road from me that runs a small hereford herd (about 8 head), but I'm not sure he'd let me take his prize bull to bred salebarn cows. I'm guessing he would be afraid of him bringing something home and infecting his herd.
