Hereford Bull /Angus cow question

[Truck3lt]

New to the site and also new to cattle. A little background. In march of 2018 I bought 4 angus heifers. I borrowed my neighbors Anus bull and successfully bred all 4 heifers. As I did more research as to what I wanted, I decided I wanted to get a Hereford bull to breed the following season to get the black baldie. I bought a beautiful huge hereford bull. Well I have had two calves from my hereford/angus mix. One is a solid black bull calf and the other is a solid red heifer calf. So I guess this is my question is...is this common and is there anything I can do different. I guess I was disappointed not to get the baldie I wanted. Thanks for any replies

 

[SBMF 2015]

Sounds like your black heifers aren't as Angus as they were represented to be. Genetics are a funny thing. I have a red neck baldie (3/4Hereford 1/4Angus) bred to an Angus, threw the nicest black angus calf this year.
Someone who is better at genetics will be able to explain it better. But some blk Angus cattle are red gene carriers and that's how you get a red calf every once and awhile.

 

[chaded]

It will be interesting to see what others say. The red doesn't surprise me at all. I found out this year that quite a bit of my black cows have a red gene. What does surprise me is that solid colors and no white at all, especially on the head somewhere.

 

[Warren Allison]

if the Angus was a pure-bred, homozygous black, then it will always produce a black calf. If it isn't a pure-bred, homozygous black angus, then it can be heterozygous black, carrying one black and one red gene. Red is recessive, and a red cow or bull will have both genes red. Breeding a homozygous black Angus to a hereford, will get you a black baldie everytime. A heterozugous Angus bred to a hereford, will give you a 50% chance of a black baldie, and a 50% chance of a red baldie.

 

[chaded]

if the Angus was a pure-bred, homozygous black, then it will always produce a black calf. If it isn't a pure-bred, homozygous black angus, then it can be heterozygous black, carrying one black and one red gene. Red is recessive, and a red cow or bull will have both genes red. Breeding a homozygous black Angus to a hereford, will get you a black baldie everytime. A heterozugous Angus bred to a hereford, will give you a 50% chance of a black baldie, and a 50% chance of a red baldie.

So what about no white showing up on the crossbred calves?

 

[Ky hills]

A purebred Angus can easily be a red carrier as could an Angus crossed with a Red Bull like a Simmental, Limousin or Gelbvieh in its background. The animal itself will be black but when bred to a Red Bull the resulting calf ends up red due to recessive red. The solid color calves out of a Hereford bull are a completely different subject. The reality is that a true Hereford should always pass on a white face to its calf. There are a lot of stories out there about solid color calves from Hereford bulls which tends to make the point that some have been alleging about other breed genetics in some Hereford pedigrees. I am going out on a limb and guessing that the bull in question may not have much white on him, other than his face and likely has red around his eyes as well.

 

[Truck3lt]

A purebred Angus can easily be a red carrier as could an Angus crossed with a Red Bull like a Simmental, Limousin or Gelbvieh in its background. The animal itself will be black but when bred to a Red Bull the resulting calf ends up red due to recessive red. The solid color calves out of a Hereford bull are a completely different subject. The reality is that a true Hereford should always pass on a white face to its calf. There are a lot of stories out there about solid color calves from Hereford bulls which tends to make the point that some have been alleging about other breed genetics in some Hereford pedigrees. I am going out on a limb and guessing that the bull in question may not have much white on him, other than his face and likely has red around his eyes as well.

Ky Hills, as I say I'm new to this game. I bought the bull from another fella who showed me calves he got off this bull.He had four black heifer angus like myself.The calves he showed me were black with white face. My bulls face is solid white with large white patch running down the underside of his neck.His belly and from knees down is white. I bought my heifers from a very well known angus breeder in the area. All his cows a solid black. He did show me one during the purchase that was red...He told me he had no idea how that happened other than he had a bull that throws red calves from time to time.

 

[Warren Allison]

if the Angus was a pure-bred, homozygous black, then it will always produce a black calf. If it isn't a pure-bred, homozygous black angus, then it can be heterozygous black, carrying one black and one red gene. Red is recessive, and a red cow or bull will have both genes red. Breeding a homozygous black Angus to a hereford, will get you a black baldie everytime. A heterozugous Angus bred to a hereford, will give you a 50% chance of a black baldie, and a 50% chance of a red baldie.

So what about no white showing up on the crossbred calves?

Chances are, the hereford parent was not a registered, purebred. Really no way to tell without a DNA test, and probably not worth the money for grade cattle.

 

[Ky hills]

A purebred Angus can easily be a red carrier as could an Angus crossed with a Red Bull like a Simmental, Limousin or Gelbvieh in its background. The animal itself will be black but when bred to a Red Bull the resulting calf ends up red due to recessive red. The solid color calves out of a Hereford bull are a completely different subject. The reality is that a true Hereford should always pass on a white face to its calf. There are a lot of stories out there about solid color calves from Hereford bulls which tends to make the point that some have been alleging about other breed genetics in some Hereford pedigrees. I am going out on a limb and guessing that the bull in question may not have much white on him, other than his face and likely has red around his eyes as well.

Ky Hills, as I say I'm new to this game. I bought the bull from another fella who showed me calves he got off this bull.He had four black heifer angus like myself.The calves he showed me were black with white face. My bulls face is solid white with large white patch running down the underside of his neck.His belly and from knees down is white. I bought my heifers from a very well known angus breeder in the area. All his cows a solid black. He did show me one during the purchase that was red...He told me he had no idea how that happened other than he had a bull that throws red calves from time to time.

Welcome to the board and to the cattle business. Angus cattle can be red as well as black. Black is the dominant color trait, while red is a recessive trait that when two red carriers are mated, a red calf results even though both parents are black. It takes a red gene from both parents to manifest in a red calf.
The white face of a Hereford is also a dominant trait. The genetics work on percentages and thus when something like the solid color face pattern happens it's more or less the luck of the draw so to speak. A large number of calves may be born with white faces, while a percentage are born with solid color faces.

 

[MurraysMutts]

This is my first one out of my hereford bull.
Mama is, I believe, commercial simangus.
I wanted more white face also.

 

[Allenw]

A purebred Angus can easily be a red carrier as could an Angus crossed with a Red Bull like a Simmental, Limousin or Gelbvieh in its background. The animal itself will be black but when bred to a Red Bull the resulting calf ends up red due to recessive red. The solid color calves out of a Hereford bull are a completely different subject. The reality is that a true Hereford should always pass on a white face to its calf. There are a lot of stories out there about solid color calves from Hereford bulls which tends to make the point that some have been alleging about other breed genetics in some Hereford pedigrees. I am going out on a limb and guessing that the bull in question may not have much white on him, other than his face and likely has red around his eyes as well.

Ky Hills, as I say I'm new to this game. I bought the bull from another fella who showed me calves he got off this bull.He had four black heifer angus like myself.The calves he showed me were black with white face. My bulls face is solid white with large white patch running down the underside of his neck.His belly and from knees down is white. I bought my heifers from a very well known angus breeder in the area. All his cows a solid black. He did show me one during the purchase that was red...He told me he had no idea how that happened other than he had a bull that throws red calves from time to time.

Welcome to the board and to the cattle business. Angus cattle can be red as well as black. Black is the dominant color trait, while red is a recessive trait that when two red carriers are mated, a red calf results even though both parents are black. It takes a red gene from both parents to manifest in a red calf.
The white face of a Hereford is also a dominant trait. The genetics work on percentages and thus when something like the solid color face pattern happens it's more or less the luck of the draw so to speak. A large number of calves may be born with white faces, while a percentage are born with solid color faces.

A pure Hereford bull will throw a white face calf unfortunately that creature is getting harder to find with multipliers, aka breeders, chasing fads and numbers. There are genes responsible for the spots or masking effect at play also that will partially cover the white face of a cross.

 

[Warren Allison]

Truck3lt wrote: " Welcome to the board and to the cattle business. Angus cattle can be red as well as black. Black is the dominant color trait, while red is a recessive trait that when two red carriers are mated, a red calf results even though both parents are black...."

Nope not always...only 25% of the time. When 2 black cattle carrying a red gene... heterozygous black, in other words.. are mated they will have 75% of their offspring black, and 25% red. 25 % will get a black gene from each parent, resulting in homozygous black calves. 50% will get a black gene from one parent and a red gene from the other, resulting in a heterozygous black calf.. like the 2 parents were. and 25% will receive a red gene from each parent, resulting in homozygous red calf.

 

[Truck3lt]

Well Thanks for the responses. I attached a pic of my bull with the cow/calf.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Nice bull, nice cow, dandy calf.

 

[Mat Man]

I head a nice w/f bull calf Born this morning . Mom is Hereford and dad is registered angus

 

[Rafter S]

That's a good looking bull, but I suspect there's something other than Hereford in his background. The long sheath and dewlap, red spots on his forehead, and lack of a white "mane" are what make me think so.

 

[Lucky]

That's a nice rig you got there. I've ran Hereford bulls with black cows for several years now and sometimes I get solid red calves never solid black though. I suspect it being from all the crossbreeding in the cows. This year I bought a Angus x Hereford cross bull to try out. Haven't had any calves out of him yet but he's a really nice bull black baldy bull.

 

[WFfarm]

I borrowed my neighbors Anus bull and successfully bred all 4 heifers.

Surprised you got any calves out of that kind of breeding..

 

[Truck3lt]

Surprised you got any calves out of that kind of breeding..

LOL, Well I guess I shouldn't say borrowed. We worked out a deal due to my lack of funds getting started in this adventure. He has a Registered Angus bull that he told me would be great with my heifers. We worked out a trade where if one of the cows had a heifer calf I would give him one. I had 3 heifers and 1 bull that season so he got to pick one of the 3. I guess that was a fair deal, seemed fair to me at the time.

 

[VaCowman]

That's a good looking bull, but I suspect there's something other than Hereford in his background. The long sheath and dewlap, red spots on his forehead, and lack of a white "mane" are what make me think so.

I agree. Maybe some Gert back in the lineage somewhere. Nice looking bull, but I'd doubt very seriously he's purebred.