help needed with stuborn horse

[sweetyp]

I've just started to help a friend train some of her horses! She has some experience with horses and is having a lot of luck but we have a problem! She has a 4 years old mere who is generaly good natured, stadle broken and in good shape. but she now wont lounge! the propblem is that shes got lazy and is so used to her owner given her her own way! the friend in question has tried to get the mere back on track bu(t can't and has asked me to try. I can sadle her without a probleme I can mount her wthout problem but we can't get her to move. Shes a lovely horse and is not at all shy or nervouse, she's just lazy and spoilt but I don't know want to do. I'm a practisede rider and have schooled a few horses but this is a probleme that I've never come a cross. I f we try to lounge her she just runs at me what do I do help! please :?:

 

[J]

Best I can tell you is that when you ask her to go, she honors your request, or there are negative reprecussions. Not saying beating her but she needs to respect you and it's pretty obvious that she doesn't. If you have acess to a round pen that can be a helpful tool.

I guess right now she needs to know her position in the pecking order.

 

[sweetyp]

We can get her groomed and sadled without a problem and she'll trot around the ring if theres some one running next to her but the moment that person stops or moves away she just stops dead and wont move or runs at me.I've tried tapping her on the rear with the lounging wipe when the person starts to leave but she just runs at me. I'm starting to wonder if she's not a bit mad? lol :roll:

 

[sweetyp]

any ideas how to get her moving when I'm on her? same thing again we can get her moving when someone walks next to her but the second they move away she just stops. I've tried everything to get her moving she's just so stuborn. :shock:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Best I can tell you is that when you ask her to go, she honors your request, or there are negative reprecussions. Not saying beating her but she needs to respect you and it's pretty obvious that she doesn't. If you have acess to a round pen that can be a helpful tool.

I guess right now she needs to know her position in the pecking order.

Get her in the round pen and turn up the heat. she knows whats she's doing and what it takes to get out of work.

 

[J]

any ideas how to get her moving when I'm on her? same thing again we can get her moving when someone walks next to her but the second they move away she just stops. I've tried everything to get her moving she's just so stuborn. :shock:

Tried a quirt or spurs yet? Don't think you can't make her go. You can it just depends on how much you try. Turn it up a notch or two, you won't have to keep it there long because she will learn that you are serious and it will be smooth sailing from there. Hopefully??

 

[semen demon]

Try ponying her with some one on her back for awhile. She needs to learn what her job is and that she IS expected to do it.

 

[cowspider]

All horses will move if asked in the correct manner. she must feel a need to move. I agree with ponying her with you on her back than drop pony rope and move her out and DO NOT STOP until you are ready and not on her terms.

 

[Alan]

I think I usally train with the natural horsemanship techniques in mind... but not for this. I would forget the riding part until you teach this mare some manners, and as already stated, what the pecking order is, you on the top of the pecking order.

If you have a round pen I would use that, if not a lounge line will work. First off, the next time she runs at you smack her across the nose (hard) with the whip or whatever. She may hurt you if she can. Then if your in the run pen, push her hard walking at her back end from the middle of the pen, forcing her to move to the outside of the ring (don't get so close you may get kicked). If she is that lazy and stuborn she will probably get tired soon so don't over do it. And don't push her so hard she goes over the rail or through it. Watch for her to start licking a chewing as she is moving, that's the sign that she's telling you that you are in charge (for now). It may take a few days to do this so she respects you. Then you will probably have an easier time under saddle.

Good Luck,
Alan

 

[sweetyp]

thanks guys Im gonna try lounging her again today. I'll let you know how it goes.
Just one last question tho: how many times a week do I do this. I don't want to push her to hard and hurt her (or get hurt) but I know when training a horse you need to be quit consistante. like I said I tried a quit a few horses but this problem is a new one for me especialy as she know how to be loung and is broken. oh and how long do I do it for like I said she is pretty lazy and I realy don't want to hurt her.

 

[tapeworm]

Quit worrying about hurtin her..worry about her hurting YOU!! Id do like Alan says and work her on the gorund until she knows her place...your the boss..not her. As for how often and how long...Id work that wench ever day til she hated my guts...she might lay down when I was through but shed be to tired to roll all the way over. Be careful but its way past time to show the mare her place. Good luck

 

[Alan]

I would work her 5 times a week, and take her until she is in a pretty good sweat or breathing hard. If she starts to stumble or move with her nose close to the ground most of the time you have gone way too far. Always make sure you walk her out and watch her legs for heat after work outs. The first few days may only be 10 to 15 minutes working. I usally don't approve of hitting a horse hard with a whip, but if she is running at you in a agressive manner, then you need to get her attention. If she is running at you to be rude or confused,than a mild tap on the body to move her out is all she may need. She needs to get use to moving in a circle and when you ask her to.

Good luck,
Alan

 

[J]

I agree with Alan and with getting her attention.
The only time, in my opinion, that it's ok to hit a horse is when it is agressive towards you. Charging, kicking, stiking and even biteing.(SP? )

Can't remember which trainer I herd it from, but it was something like the 3 second rule? If the horse bites you, or something thats aggressive, then you have 3 seconds to "kill" the horse. (not on the head) Not literally but make the horse think so, but you only have 3 seconds and you have to attack the instant the aggressive action happens. Then after the 3 seconds, you calmly pet the horse and let it know everythings ok, you still like it and that it should not do whatever it did. I don't how it works but in theroy it sounds good.

 

[cowgirl580]

I agree with Alan and with getting her attention.
The only time, in my opinion, that it's ok to hit a horse is when it is agressive towards you. Charging, kicking, stiking and even biteing.(SP? )

Can't remember which trainer I herd it from, but it was something like the 3 second rule? If the horse bites you, or something thats aggressive, then you have 3 seconds to "kill" the horse. (not on the head) Not literally but make the horse think so, but you only have 3 seconds and you have to attack the instant the aggressive action happens. Then after the 3 seconds, you calmly pet the horse and let it know everythings ok, you still like it and that it should not do whatever it did. I don't how it works but in theroy it sounds good.

John Lyon's has said something like this. it's said that after 3 seconds they don't remember what exactly it is that they did wrong, so if you reacted after the 3 seconds than the horse thinks your punishing them for standing still or whatever they are doing at the time unrelated to the first incident.

 

[Alan]

I also know of the 3 second rule and agree completly, if the horse does something completely unacceptable you have 3 seconds to make it think it's going to die. Then your done.

Good point J

Alan

 

[sweetyp]

Thanks guys for all your help. I've been lounging her every 2 days and after the first sesion she stoped running at me. I only had two hit her twice on the nose and she seems to have decided that thats not a good idea. She'll trott in a circle but it's very irregulier and everytime that me prais her she'll stop and turn in, but hay at least she's not running at me. She's still a bit funny with me but I think with some practice she'll carm down. the problem was that she's so used to getting her own way that she's become a real handfall.

 

[sweetyp]

Oh by the way we think she may be expecting another foal.Up to when can we lounge her? she's foaled before and is good at it but we don't want to put strain on the foal befor its evenborn!! :?:

 

[Linda]

Lounging isn't about running the horse until it's exhausted, which you already know. So, lounging a healthy horse, pregnant or not, is not going to hurt that horse or the foal. Since lounging is all about teaching manners and respect. don't worry about the pregnancy. When I'm training a horse, I find working with it in the round pen every day for about 15 minutes to an hour helps tremendously. If you are properly round penning your horse, you can easily work with it every day.

Your horse is turning and walking toward you for one of two reasons. Either she's showing respect and deferring to you as her herd leader, or she is turning and walking toward you as a way to not have to work. Make sure you only allow her to stop and turn toward you when you give her the signal to stop. If she stops on her own, increase the pressure on her until she moves out again. If, for instance, she is trotting to your command, watch for her to start peeking at you with her eye. If her nose is still turned outward, she is looking for escape outside the pen. If she starts peeking at you and softening her neck and head toward you (watch closely, this can be very subtle) then give her a command to stop. If she turns toward you when she stops, take a step back to take the pressure off of her and let her know she's doing the right thing. Be sure to work on voice commands with her. She is able to learn an amazing amount of our language. She learns the spoken word as well as body language.

You say her trot is uneven. I'm guessing she wants to slow down all the time? If so, then work her a little harder. If she doesn't want to trot evenly, then lope her until she starts looking at you. You can then take off enough pressure and give her the command to trot, or you can stop her allow her to turn to you, then start her out at the trot again. With a little work on your part, she will quickly learn that not trotting means extra work, as she'll have to lope. She has to eventually learn that doing what you are asking of her is the easiest way out. Always make what you want the horse to do the easy thing. If they don't do what you ask, then they find they have to do something that is more work.

One thing that makes a huge difference in our horses is to do a "Reverse" with them. At any gait you choose, step toward the front of the horse with your arm or whip out and call, "Reeeee vers!" Drawing out the first syllable allows the horse a little advance notice of what you want. You do want the horse to turn toward you, change direction & move out. If the horse turns away from you and moves out at first, you can live with that for awhile. As you work with the horse on basic ground work more and more, it will start turning toward you. So have the horse reverse several times in the pen, especially if the horse isn't paying attention to you. The reverse is hard work for the horse and she won't like it. The reverse is one of the best ways I've found to get a horse to focus. Reverse the horse several times, and always in a different spot in the pen, so she won't anticipate. If she reverses on her own without you telling her to, and she will try that, don't let her. Put all kinds of pressure with voice and body to force her to go the direction you told her to go. Very soon she will perk up and pay perfect attention to you. It's a good feeling to see that horse standing there ears up and forward and totally focused on you. Good luck to you. I hope some of this helps.

 

[TB lady]

Wow,that was well said or typed, that is some very good advice. Do you train lots of horses? I have a problem Arab that I have been needing some help with.

 

[sweetyp]

Thanks for your advice linda I've been trying it with her and it's a slow progress but it is working. though she's reluctant and stubborn. but she seems to understand now that she isn't in charge. I was just wondering though what do I do with her if she TRYs to bit me. I know what I'd do with a horse if it actualy bit me but she never sems to manage it, shes not really trying she just sort of nips and misses everytime. I'd normaly just hit her but as she's not actualy bitting I don't know if thats a good idea. The actions definatly there but she doesn't seem to want to ACTUALY do it. It's strange. any advice :idea: :?: