Help me understand these hay test reults

[tom4018]

We tested some hay and got to learn more about how to read these. Are these results typical for a fescue clover mix? I can see the timing of the cut really affected the protein, weather delayed this second field getting cut.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

The first set is low, and I personally would not feed it, unless I baled it myself and was stuck with it.
You want your RFV, which is relative feed value, to be higher (for a grass hay, we look for something higher than 80 or walk away). Protein on the second set is much better, but still not high for a clover mix (would work for dry cows). TDN is low on both. The first hay would be considered poor in our state, and the second set might get in the fair category. For dry cows, that second set would work fine, but if you are feeding wet cows you will need to supplement. Just from our experience. We did win the hay show out here for our district fair two years, but have been beat every other year, of course in Fesuce division cause we are king of fescue over here! The other numbers, like Acid detergent fiber and Neutral Detergent fiber is how the RFV is figured, and has to do with how much can actually be digested from the hay and if I remember correctly, how palatable it is.
Here is a good sheet that has a table easy to read...

http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p2620.pdf

 

[tom4018]

The first set is low, and I personally would not feed it, unless I baled it myself and was stuck with it.
You want your RFV, which is relative feed value, to be higher (for a grass hay, we look for something higher than 80 or walk away). Protein on the second set is much better, but still not high for a clover mix (would work for dry cows). TDN is low on both. The first hay would be considered poor in our state, and the second set might get in the fair category. For dry cows, that second set would work fine, but if you are feeding wet cows you will need to supplement. Just from our experience. We did win the hay show out here for our district fair two years, but have been beat every other year, of course in Fesuce division cause we are king of fescue over here! The other numbers, like Acid detergent fiber and Neutral Detergent fiber is how the RFV is figured, and has to do with how much can actually be digested from the hay and if I remember correctly, how palatable it is.

Thanks, I was thinking it was fair hay. Unfortunately I am stuck with it, baled on my place. The sample with the higher protein was what was cut first, the second sample got cut later due to a stretch of rainy weather, the protein difference really showed up. One of the other samples had a RFV of almost 80 and I thought it would have been the worst hay, a farm that has been let go with very little added to it. I am shocked my tested so poorly, we bale about as early as anyone around weather permitting. What would the best course be to improve quality in the future?

 

[inyati13]

The first set is low, and I personally would not feed it, unless I baled it myself and was stuck with it.
You want your RFV, which is relative feed value, to be higher (for a grass hay, we look for something higher than 80 or walk away). Protein on the second set is much better, but still not high for a clover mix (would work for dry cows). TDN is low on both. The first hay would be considered poor in our state, and the second set might get in the fair category. For dry cows, that second set would work fine, but if you are feeding wet cows you will need to supplement. Just from our experience. We did win the hay show out here for our district fair two years, but have been beat every other year, of course in Fesuce division cause we are king of fescue over here! The other numbers, like Acid detergent fiber and Neutral Detergent fiber is how the RFV is figured, and has to do with how much can actually be digested from the hay and if I remember correctly, how palatable it is.

Thanks, I was thinking it was fair hay. Unfortunately I am stuck with it, baled on my place. The sample with the higher protein was what was cut first, the second sample got cut later due to a stretch of rainy weather, the protein difference really showed up. One of the other samples had a RFV of almost 80 and I thought it would have been the worst hay, a farm that has been let go with very little added to it. I am shocked my tested so poorly, we bale about as early as anyone around weather permitting. What would the best course be to improve quality in the future?

TOM, Kris holds high standards for her hay. I have had my hay tested in the past two years and I have discussed the subject with our Extension Agent. You should contact that office in your county.

What I can offer you is that your hay is about what the average hay in my area looks like. I have purchased hay that was in the 5 to 6 range on crude protein. When I looked at it before purchase I thought it was much better. You don't know hay unless you test it.

What you can do to improve your hay is put amendments on your field. Crushed stone is often needed to provide Calcium and minerals. Fertilizer is needed if you want good protein levels. Also, a factor in nutrition levels is timing your harvest and proper curing.

 

[tom4018]

The first set is low, and I personally would not feed it, unless I baled it myself and was stuck with it.
You want your RFV, which is relative feed value, to be higher (for a grass hay, we look for something higher than 80 or walk away). Protein on the second set is much better, but still not high for a clover mix (would work for dry cows). TDN is low on both. The first hay would be considered poor in our state, and the second set might get in the fair category. For dry cows, that second set would work fine, but if you are feeding wet cows you will need to supplement. Just from our experience. We did win the hay show out here for our district fair two years, but have been beat every other year, of course in Fesuce division cause we are king of fescue over here! The other numbers, like Acid detergent fiber and Neutral Detergent fiber is how the RFV is figured, and has to do with how much can actually be digested from the hay and if I remember correctly, how palatable it is.

Thanks, I was thinking it was fair hay. Unfortunately I am stuck with it, baled on my place. The sample with the higher protein was what was cut first, the second sample got cut later due to a stretch of rainy weather, the protein difference really showed up. One of the other samples had a RFV of almost 80 and I thought it would have been the worst hay, a farm that has been let go with very little added to it. I am shocked my tested so poorly, we bale about as early as anyone around weather permitting. What would the best course be to improve quality in the future?

TOM, Kris holds high standards for her hay. I have had my hay tested in the past two years and I have discussed the subject with our Extension Agent. You should contact that office in your county.

What I can offer you is that your hay is about what the average hay in my area looks like. I have purchased hay that was in the 5 to 6 range on crude protein. When I looked at it before purchase I thought it was much better. You don't know hay unless you test it.

What you can do to improve your hay is put amendments on your field. Crushed stone is often needed to provide Calcium and minerals. Fertilizer is needed if you want good protein levels. Also, a factor in nutrition levels is timing your harvest and proper curing.

We put plenty of amendments, it had 2 toms of chicken litter in the fall and then top dress in the spring with 30-40-70 commercial fertilizer. PH tests good per UK. The lower protein of that soil tests was more mature than I like due to rainy weather.

Would you feel the need to supplement with something?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I'd put out protein tubs. Some would say it's a waste. It makes me feel better to put some out and the cattle gobble it up.

You should PM TexasBred and invite him to comment.

As for not feeding it all I say balderdash, something is better than nothing and they'll survive.

 

[tom4018]

I'd put out protein tubs. Some would say it's a waste. It makes me feel better to put some out and the cattle gobble it up.

You should PM TexasBred and invite him to comment.

As for not feeding it all I say balderdash, something is better than nothing and they'll survive.

It will have to be fed, they have survived on hay cut off this place before that had to be similar or less quality.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I'd put out protein tubs. Some would say it's a waste. It makes me feel better to put some out and the cattle gobble it up.

You should PM TexasBred and invite him to comment.

As for not feeding it all I say balderdash, something is better than nothing and they'll survive.

It will have to be fed, they have survived on hay cut off this place before that had to be similar or less quality.

Bingo!

We bought some awful looking trash filled hay last year that was full of weeds and even had roadside junk mixed in on some of the bales. The cows picked around and ate most of it and came out fine in the spring.

I will,admit that most of the winter they dined on much higher quality homegrown hay than they finished with.

 

[inyati13]

Tom, my hay is about like yours. You are ok on the amendments so the quality might be due to your haying practices. I would put out good protein tubs. I have them out at my place because I worry that my hay is too low in protein.

 

[tom4018]

Tom, my hay is about like yours. You are ok on the amendments so the quality might be due to your haying practices. I would put out good protein tubs. I have them out at my place because I worry that my hay is too low in protein.

Ron in defense of my haying practices, teach me how to control the weather and they will improve. :lol:

I am usually in the field as soon as weather and ground conditions allow. My place is some wet natured ground so it takes me a little longer to be able to get in the field without rutting it up, got a neighbor that was cutting hay a month of more after me, wonder how his would test?

We cut some on one farm that had a higher RFV number but less protein that I would have called poor hay by looks. Hard to judge it.

 

[TexasBred]

I'd put out protein tubs. Some would say it's a waste. It makes me feel better to put some out and the cattle gobble it up.

You should PM TexasBred and invite him to comment.

As for not feeding it all I say balderdash, something is better than nothing and they'll survive.

What is it some say "better than snowballs?"..... they'll eat it just to get full and stay warm. Give them some protein supplement to compliment and they'll be fine. You may have to dodge turds big as bowling balls when you ride in the pasture. :shock: :lol: Tom, try to cut on time. Even laying on the ground getting rained on it will be better than letting it grow well past prime and turn into little more than filler (see hay test) ;-)

 

[Kingfisher]

" Give them some protein supplement to compliment and they'll be fine."
I know free choice tubs are an option but how often should cows be supplemented on less than adequate hay?

 

[TexasBred]

" Give them some protein supplement to compliment and they'll be fine."
I know free choice tubs are an option but how often should cows be supplemented on less than adequate hay?

Folks that feed cubes often feed daily. Some every other day or even every 3 days. I feed 38% cubes and will feed everyday but only about 2 lbs. per cow. I just like to walk through them and look them over everyday.

 

[Kingfisher]

I've seen some discussion on the difference in value between the 38% vs 20% cubes but it didn't sink in. Can you explain that again? Why is it that the 20/22% cubes seem to be most popular?

 

[B&M Farms]

I've seen some discussion on the difference in value between the 38% vs 20% cubes but it didn't sink in. Can you explain that again? Why is it that the 20/22% cubes seem to be most popular?

This can vary depending on the quality of the cubes but 38% and 20% cubes have about the same energy per pound. If you are feeding poor quality hay free choice, but plenty of it, the 38% cubes are fine at half the rate it would require of the 20% cubes. If you are limit feeding hay you would probably be better with the twenties although it would be better to supply more roughage.

This link explains some of it.


http://www.noble.org/ag/livestock/feedwintercows/

 

[TexasBred]

I've seen some discussion on the difference in value between the 38% vs 20% cubes but it didn't sink in. Can you explain that again? Why is it that the 20/22% cubes seem to be most popular?

Down here in Texas 38% cubes are normally pure cottonseed meal. Very digestible and high in energy. 20% cubes will get a lot of their protein from cottonseed meal as well but the reduction from 38% to 20% leaves a lot of room for filler.....some good by-products may be used....some not so good. Any "roughage products" in the formulation will usually be rice hulls or peanut hulls....about as digestible as newspaper so your 20% cube will never have the TDN or energy of the 38% cube. Some of this could be offset by adding fat but fat it very expensive so you'll seldom see a cube with high fat. 38% may be 50% more expensive but are twice the value. One of two companies use to make an "alfalfa cube" but they're made from low grade alfalfa as well and typically only guaranteed around 16-17% crude protein. There is a reason that grade of alfalfa is sold in a cube rather than a bale. :nod:

 

[Kingfisher]

Thanks TB! It's clear as mud now..... I bought some 22 the other day that came from around Bryan and they looked good with some corn in em and if I remember they had some alfalfa in em too. I usually feed RRR 22's which are peanut based. I'll check Monday on some of the Bryan Feed Mill 38's and get back with you. Thanks for that link. I appreciate you.

 

[tom4018]

I'd put out protein tubs. Some would say it's a waste. It makes me feel better to put some out and the cattle gobble it up.

You should PM TexasBred and invite him to comment.

As for not feeding it all I say balderdash, something is better than nothing and they'll survive.

What is it some say "better than snowballs?"..... they'll eat it just to get full and stay warm. Give them some protein supplement to compliment and they'll be fine. You may have to dodge turds big as bowling balls when you ride in the pasture. :shock: :lol: Tom, try to cut on time. Even laying on the ground getting rained on it will be better than letting it grow well past prime and turn into little more than filler (see hay test) ;-)

I try to cut as soon as possible, with Kentucky's weather it is hard to get enough days in a row to get is done. If we get a lot of rain my ground takes a bit to dry out enough to not rut the field, then it is back to raining again.

 

[TexasBred]

True Tom... Sometimes seems it's just a no win situation. :x