One of my heifers who would have been a first calver aborted her calf yesterday. She would have been about 4 months along. A week or 10 days ago when it was VERY cold, the cattle stripped the bottom branches of some very dense ponderosa pine trees (despite the fact they were getting adequate forage) and after some research I read that these trees are toxic to a pregnant cow, but cause abortion in the last trimester and this heifer had just barely entered her 2nd. We moved to this property from the plains and this will be our first calving season here. I can't imagine that ponderosa pines can cause that many problems. Plenty of people in the rocky mountains have pastures full of them! But that aside, assuming this is an isolated incident and none of my other cows have a problem, what should I do with this heifer? She was bred a little early because she was a late calf, but I didn't want to hold her another year. She is about 16 months old. Should I try her again? I am not sure what to do. I don't need to sell her, as her weight now is perfect to begin feeding for butcher so I may do that. She is a nice heifer though and I just wonder if it is worth giving her another chance.
Heifer aborted....now what?
- Thread starter raykour
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Gale Seddon
Well-known member
If you have the fetus, your state lab could test to see what the cause was, but I'm not sure you want to go to that extent.
Was she vaccinated?
Very distressing, isn't it, especially with a heifer. So sorry!
Was she vaccinated?
Very distressing, isn't it, especially with a heifer. So sorry!
I have not vaccinated her since calf hood.
I do have the fetus. I decided not to test it for now, unless another one looses a calf. If it was an isolated incident, it is not worth finding out. The calf is gone, that is that. The fetus looked normal...no extra limbs or any deformity that I could discern.
I don't have a bull to re-breed her right now. We sold the bull the end of August and purchased another but we won't be getting him till May. She is young enough, I kind of think to give her a free pass because she is a nice heifer and I like her. I don't think she'd make me too much money. I bought her for $697 last March. I think she'd sell fo $950-$1000, which isn't bad but I would have much rather had the calf. I just hate to breed her again in the spring and have her have the same issue. Then I sell her as a cull heiferette. But prices for culls could be great by then.
I am supplementing these cows with hay (there is still some pasture) and she is in good physical condition so I would not think that would have had anything to do with it, but this is the first time I have dealth with this!
I do have the fetus. I decided not to test it for now, unless another one looses a calf. If it was an isolated incident, it is not worth finding out. The calf is gone, that is that. The fetus looked normal...no extra limbs or any deformity that I could discern.
I don't have a bull to re-breed her right now. We sold the bull the end of August and purchased another but we won't be getting him till May. She is young enough, I kind of think to give her a free pass because she is a nice heifer and I like her. I don't think she'd make me too much money. I bought her for $697 last March. I think she'd sell fo $950-$1000, which isn't bad but I would have much rather had the calf. I just hate to breed her again in the spring and have her have the same issue. Then I sell her as a cull heiferette. But prices for culls could be great by then.
I am supplementing these cows with hay (there is still some pasture) and she is in good physical condition so I would not think that would have had anything to do with it, but this is the first time I have dealth with this!
raykour":ffrwmipd said:
Sell her now, take the money and put a few bucks with it and buy a bred heifer. At least you will have a calf to sell in the fall. If you keep her another year you will have fed her for 2 winters before you have a calf to sell. If you wait till spring to buy a bred heifer you won't have to even feed her for this winter.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
raykour,
Yes, this may be an isolated incident - and most of the abortion/stillbirth cases I work with in the diagnostic laboratory here are; but, if 2-3 weeks from now, 2, 3, 4, or 20 cows abort their calves, you might find yourself wishing you'd submitted that first one for a diagnostic workup, so that you could have gotten ahead of the trainwreck that you didn't know was coming down the tracks.
That said, most abortion/stillbirth diagnostic workups are low-yield - and I frequently see/hear "We sent that fetus to the diagnostic lab, and they didn't find anything." Well, no, the diagnosticians may not have definitively the cause of abortion - but they will have effectively RULED OUT the major causes - like excessive nitrates, IBR, BVD, Lepto, Campylobacter(Vibrio), Coxiella(Q fever), Salmonella, Neospora, etc. - particularly the things that you might be able to do something about.
At my laboratory, we only come up with a definitive diagnosis on *maybe* 25% of abortion/stillbirth cases - but we rule out the common infectious/toxic causes on every one of the rest of them.
Given the choice between placenta(afterbirth) and fetus - give me placenta(both, if possible). In cases where I receive fetus and placenta, in probably 50% of cases, there is a diagnostic lesion in the placenta and NOTHING in the fetal tissues. Definitive diagnosis rate almost doubles, if placenta is available for testing. And yes, I know, sometimes the cow has eaten it, the dogs/coyotes/buzzards have eaten it, or it's still in the cow as she disappears over the top of the hill - but if you can obtain placenta for submission along with the fetus, the diagnostic picture gets much, much better.
Yes, this may be an isolated incident - and most of the abortion/stillbirth cases I work with in the diagnostic laboratory here are; but, if 2-3 weeks from now, 2, 3, 4, or 20 cows abort their calves, you might find yourself wishing you'd submitted that first one for a diagnostic workup, so that you could have gotten ahead of the trainwreck that you didn't know was coming down the tracks.
That said, most abortion/stillbirth diagnostic workups are low-yield - and I frequently see/hear "We sent that fetus to the diagnostic lab, and they didn't find anything." Well, no, the diagnosticians may not have definitively the cause of abortion - but they will have effectively RULED OUT the major causes - like excessive nitrates, IBR, BVD, Lepto, Campylobacter(Vibrio), Coxiella(Q fever), Salmonella, Neospora, etc. - particularly the things that you might be able to do something about.
At my laboratory, we only come up with a definitive diagnosis on *maybe* 25% of abortion/stillbirth cases - but we rule out the common infectious/toxic causes on every one of the rest of them.
Given the choice between placenta(afterbirth) and fetus - give me placenta(both, if possible). In cases where I receive fetus and placenta, in probably 50% of cases, there is a diagnostic lesion in the placenta and NOTHING in the fetal tissues. Definitive diagnosis rate almost doubles, if placenta is available for testing. And yes, I know, sometimes the cow has eaten it, the dogs/coyotes/buzzards have eaten it, or it's still in the cow as she disappears over the top of the hill - but if you can obtain placenta for submission along with the fetus, the diagnostic picture gets much, much better.
HomePlaceAngus
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Selling her now and buying a bred heifer in the spring sounds like a winner. Good Luck :tiphat:
Lucky_P":1cbgxg5b said:
Well I just might be able to. The heifer has retained the placenta. After 3 days of showing absolutely no discharge or indication the placenta was still inside her, she started delivering it this morning. I don't have any oxytocin, so I am going to get some tomorrow for her.
This is another main indicator of the "pine needle abortion", the retention of the placenta. Sigh. I don't know how realistic it is that this is what caused it, but until I figure it out I guess I am going to have alot of cows in a pen!
Loch Valley Fold
Well-known member
Many years ago we had a hereford heifer that had eaten radiata pine needles & she did exactly what your did aborted her calf & retained the placenta we kept her & she went on to calve every year without any problems our solution was to fence off the trees so they can't eat the needles. The cows now go up there after they have calve & before they are rebred during our hot summers here
Unfortunately my entire property is covered with ponderosa pine stands in many areas of extremely varied mountain terrain where fencing them off is not a viable option.
Last year, I moved my bred cows here in March and they started calving right away and I had no problems. This is our first full winter here. The heifers really seem to have the addiction to the pine needles, as they have strippd the bottom of some trees completely.
Short of keeping these cows in a very small corral all winter, I think the only logical solution for my situation is to move my cows to begin calving in June so that in the last trimester there is grass coming in and the cows will be much less likely to forage on the needles unless I want to change out to fall calving. After I did some research I found that studies that showed in the Dakotas and Montana that cows had a significantly decreased (very nominal) number of pine needle abortions calving from June 1-October 30. So short of selling my girls and changing over to a fall calving program, I figure I will put the bull out with them in August instead of May. Any other opinions on this ? Keeping in mind that my topography and the prevelance of the pines here makes dry lotting these cows long term or fencing them away from the trees unrealistic options.
Last year, I moved my bred cows here in March and they started calving right away and I had no problems. This is our first full winter here. The heifers really seem to have the addiction to the pine needles, as they have strippd the bottom of some trees completely.
Short of keeping these cows in a very small corral all winter, I think the only logical solution for my situation is to move my cows to begin calving in June so that in the last trimester there is grass coming in and the cows will be much less likely to forage on the needles unless I want to change out to fall calving. After I did some research I found that studies that showed in the Dakotas and Montana that cows had a significantly decreased (very nominal) number of pine needle abortions calving from June 1-October 30. So short of selling my girls and changing over to a fall calving program, I figure I will put the bull out with them in August instead of May. Any other opinions on this ? Keeping in mind that my topography and the prevelance of the pines here makes dry lotting these cows long term or fencing them away from the trees unrealistic options.
Floyd
Well-known member
I see a couple of options.
Spend the money on fencing some ground then either log it or prune the pines above the browse line. Down side to prining is you will have some needles to deal with. You could burn it before you put the cows in. PP is very resistant to fire.
Spend the money on fencing some ground then either log it or prune the pines above the browse line. Down side to prining is you will have some needles to deal with. You could burn it before you put the cows in. PP is very resistant to fire.
A
Anonymous
Is it possible to thin the trees, trim the rest, and rake the needles as needed?
HEREFORD ROADHOG
Well-known member
I think you should consider vaccinating your cows with some type of a combination containing a lepto vaccine. I use triangle 9.raykour":2yt2idyc said:
