Heifer Aborted Calf
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Koffi Babone
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I agree with Dun, even sending the carcass or afterbirth to the pathology lab doesn't always give a satisfactory answer...
Lucky_P
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If you don't look, you won't find the answer.
But...I'll admit, up front, that abortion/stillbirth problems are frustrating for producer, veterinarian, and diagnostician - and are frequently 'low-yield'. We (veterinary diagnosticians) probably only come up with a definitive diagnosis as to cause of abortion in maybe 20-25% of cases... but we effectively 'rule-out' most of the things that you can do anything about, vaccination or management-wise.
That said, we're often operating out of a hole, with one hand tied behind our back. Best-case scenario for coming up with a definitive diagnosis is to have a complete history, including vaccinations, feeds, water source, etc., PLACENTA, fetus, maternal serum collected at the time of abortion, and a convalescent serum sample collected 3-4 weeks later. But, I rarely get all that... more often than not, all I get is the fetus, or pieces of fetal tissues.
In easily 50% of the cases in which placenta is submitted... there will be a lesion or significant bacterial/viral isolate from the placenta... and absolutely NOTHING in the fetus. But... I receive placenta with *maybe* 10% of these submissions... and I understand that it may not be available - the cow may have eaten it, the dogs/coyotes/buzzards may have eaten it, it may still be in the cow - but if it's available, it may be the single most important sample to submit to the diagnostic laboratory if you want a diagnosis.
But...I'll admit, up front, that abortion/stillbirth problems are frustrating for producer, veterinarian, and diagnostician - and are frequently 'low-yield'. We (veterinary diagnosticians) probably only come up with a definitive diagnosis as to cause of abortion in maybe 20-25% of cases... but we effectively 'rule-out' most of the things that you can do anything about, vaccination or management-wise.
That said, we're often operating out of a hole, with one hand tied behind our back. Best-case scenario for coming up with a definitive diagnosis is to have a complete history, including vaccinations, feeds, water source, etc., PLACENTA, fetus, maternal serum collected at the time of abortion, and a convalescent serum sample collected 3-4 weeks later. But, I rarely get all that... more often than not, all I get is the fetus, or pieces of fetal tissues.
In easily 50% of the cases in which placenta is submitted... there will be a lesion or significant bacterial/viral isolate from the placenta... and absolutely NOTHING in the fetus. But... I receive placenta with *maybe* 10% of these submissions... and I understand that it may not be available - the cow may have eaten it, the dogs/coyotes/buzzards may have eaten it, it may still be in the cow - but if it's available, it may be the single most important sample to submit to the diagnostic laboratory if you want a diagnosis.
Stocker Steve
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Been there and submitted the placenta too. Got back thick reports with big words. :help: Called the vet for a translation. He said moldy hay. That aside, genetics and stress also play a role.
I think the best way re reduce a one off problem is to eat the heifer.
I think the best way re reduce a one off problem is to eat the heifer.
Stocker Steve":2cngje91 said:
I've always heard moldy hay could cause abortion & I'm always worried because I don't know if it's possible to not have at least some mold in some of the bales (primarily contingent on when it's cut) BUT they generally don't eat it. Good to know.
Lucky_P
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Lots of things can cause abortions - some infectious, some contagious, some neither - and a lot of the time, we can never figure out what caused it.
Diagnosticians at U.Saskatchewan, back in the 1980s, looked at 'fresh' third-trimester bovine fetuses... cultured cells from pericarcial sac, then karyotyped them... about 11% had chromosomal abnormalities that may or may not have been lethal mutations, although these calves looked 'normal'. Most diagnostic labs are not set up to do that sort of research project-style testing on every case... and even if they were, it would only be applicable to do on the ones that weren't dead for 2-3 days inside the cow before she expelled them, or that lay out in the sun for a day or so before someone found them.
I've been involved in veterinary medicine either as a student, practitioner, or diagnostic pathologist for right at 40 years... and have seen a bit... but I've not yet seen a mycotic abortion(from moldy hay); I know it happens... and I've fed some pretty nasty moldy hay in my day ... but I've never yet seen one.
Diagnosticians at U.Saskatchewan, back in the 1980s, looked at 'fresh' third-trimester bovine fetuses... cultured cells from pericarcial sac, then karyotyped them... about 11% had chromosomal abnormalities that may or may not have been lethal mutations, although these calves looked 'normal'. Most diagnostic labs are not set up to do that sort of research project-style testing on every case... and even if they were, it would only be applicable to do on the ones that weren't dead for 2-3 days inside the cow before she expelled them, or that lay out in the sun for a day or so before someone found them.
I've been involved in veterinary medicine either as a student, practitioner, or diagnostic pathologist for right at 40 years... and have seen a bit... but I've not yet seen a mycotic abortion(from moldy hay); I know it happens... and I've fed some pretty nasty moldy hay in my day ... but I've never yet seen one.
Stocker Steve
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This stuff was some purchased red clover hay. Looked good but clouds of white mold when you opened up the bales. The two cows that aborted were older, and one had a rep as a big eater.
One year we had an abortion storm. Babies basicly were rotte and falling apart. Sent several to the lab and they couldn;t come up with a for sure reason. We managed to send a placenta and from the face of the cotyledons they cultured Chlamydia.Lucky_P":1vfrvpin said:
Koffi Babone
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In all cases, you need to realise there is a cost involved with sending samples to the lab (or calling out the vet).
True, if you don't search for the answer, you will never know. But keep in mind that you are paying to have at best a 25% chance of having an answer (in our area, if I recall the numbers are even lower than 20% and most were bacterial. But even knowing the cause would have made little difference in the management of the herd)...
If you have one cow that aborted, is it worth investigating (keep in mind that miscarriages are fairly common in humans too)? If you have several affected animals, now that is a different story.
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/repro ... t=abortion in cattle&alt=sh
"Given the low diagnostic success rate, the high cost of laboratory work, and the low profit margin in both the beef and dairy industries, veterinarians should not attempt to make an etiologic diagnosis in every abortion. Instead, veterinarians should become concerned if fetal loss is >3%–5% per year or per month"
True, if you don't search for the answer, you will never know. But keep in mind that you are paying to have at best a 25% chance of having an answer (in our area, if I recall the numbers are even lower than 20% and most were bacterial. But even knowing the cause would have made little difference in the management of the herd)...
If you have one cow that aborted, is it worth investigating (keep in mind that miscarriages are fairly common in humans too)? If you have several affected animals, now that is a different story.
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/repro ... t=abortion in cattle&alt=sh
"Given the low diagnostic success rate, the high cost of laboratory work, and the low profit margin in both the beef and dairy industries, veterinarians should not attempt to make an etiologic diagnosis in every abortion. Instead, veterinarians should become concerned if fetal loss is >3%–5% per year or per month"
Lucky_P
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Despite all the lectures in undergrad and veterinary school about infectious and toxic causes of abortion, and 'abortion storms'... in 40 years, I can count on one hand the number of cases that actually fit into the 'abortion storm' category, where there had been more than one or two abortions within a short period of time.
Yes, the number of human pregnancies that terminate in 'miscarriages' may (or may not - I don't have numbers) be higher than we might want to accept in a beef or dairy herd... I have a cousin whose wife miscarried several times before the physicians determined that she had an 'incompetent cervix'... the little fellers were just falling out, once they reached about 4-5 months. All she needed was a pursestring suture to keep her cervix closed. But... cows aren't walking around on their back legs... but what if they have an incompetent cervix, and end up with an ascending infection from the vagina making its way through the cervix to infect the placenta? Could that happen? Yes. Does it happen? I dunno.
Vast majority of cases I deal with are single, isolated, sporadic cases... which partially accounts for the low 'success' rate we have in determining cause... I'm convinced that a large percentage of these are NOT of contagious etiology. But... who's to say that that abortion is not going to turn out to be the first of a large number in a short timeframe... and if you'd sent it in for examination, you might have been able to 'get ahead of it'.
If it's a full-term calf... I'm less likely to think that it needs a diagnostic workup(they're usually stillbirths/perinatal deaths due to dystocia or poor mothering) than I would a mid-term abortion.
Yes, the number of human pregnancies that terminate in 'miscarriages' may (or may not - I don't have numbers) be higher than we might want to accept in a beef or dairy herd... I have a cousin whose wife miscarried several times before the physicians determined that she had an 'incompetent cervix'... the little fellers were just falling out, once they reached about 4-5 months. All she needed was a pursestring suture to keep her cervix closed. But... cows aren't walking around on their back legs... but what if they have an incompetent cervix, and end up with an ascending infection from the vagina making its way through the cervix to infect the placenta? Could that happen? Yes. Does it happen? I dunno.
Vast majority of cases I deal with are single, isolated, sporadic cases... which partially accounts for the low 'success' rate we have in determining cause... I'm convinced that a large percentage of these are NOT of contagious etiology. But... who's to say that that abortion is not going to turn out to be the first of a large number in a short timeframe... and if you'd sent it in for examination, you might have been able to 'get ahead of it'.
If it's a full-term calf... I'm less likely to think that it needs a diagnostic workup(they're usually stillbirths/perinatal deaths due to dystocia or poor mothering) than I would a mid-term abortion.
BK9954
Well-known member
Selenium deficiency can cause an abortion in cattle. After one abortion I started using loose minerals along with the mineral tubs. My vet said they couldnt get enough from the tubs and to always have the loose minerals available. Worked so far if that was the cause. The cow was 7 months bred.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Chlamydia abortion in ruminants is not really a venereally-transmitted condition. Principally contracted by exposure to aborted fetus/placenta/discharges... but also present in the GI tract of some animals, so fecal exposure is also a route.
It is transmitted though soil, etc. It's also called "foothills abortion disease". Usually only happens very much in really wet years. We got it from a bred show female that when she had hers it contaminated the rest of the herd. Turns out the jerk we got her from had it rampant in his herd and always considerd the first offpsring a throw away pregnancy. Once they;ve had it and they've aborted from it they never get it again. Not sure if they still slough the stuff after that. We treated with aureomycin in the water for 3 or 4 months and that cleared it up.angus9259":168q49yu said:
I'm no expert on the subject but having a neighbor close by that has experienced several abortions and calves born dead, his reasoning is this. We (here in Ga) have been in a terrible drought and extremely high above normal temperatures this summer. Morning lows in the upper 70's with daytime highs around 100. Cattle become stressed in this type of environment. When the expected cow gets too stressed, she looks for ways to get rid of the stress and sometimes, this will result in an abortion. Also, grass tetany can also be part of the reason for the abortion. With the grass dying early June and coming back in August, the nitrates could have been higher than normal which could also result in the abortions.
Like I said, that's his theory and he's been in the business many years. He says this is the worse year he's ever had with losing cattle, calves and abortions.
Like I said, that's his theory and he's been in the business many years. He says this is the worse year he's ever had with losing cattle, calves and abortions.
Had one abort yesterday, 3 months bred. Was supposed to sell her as bred (along with 5 others) private treaty so I'll probably have to replace her with one I was going to keep unless he's okay with one less. Dangit!
