He might have a future

Help Support CattleToday:

Margonme":3cmvodi6 said:
frieghttrain":3cmvodi6 said:
Fire Sweep Ranch":3cmvodi6 said:
These were taken about 60 days ago, this is his Grandmaster (about 9 months old):
29zwx01.jpg


This is the Dream On Embryo bull. The black one and red one are flush brothers. The black on Ron sent to me to feed and sell. (Both are almost 9 months old in the picture)
15zmnhf.jpg
I really like the look of that red Dream On son.

I should leave this to Fire Sweep. But so far she thinks the black Dream On is better. In addition, a couple of the local big names looked at the lot of bulls. They liked the black Dream On best out of them all. I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder.
I 100% agree I didn't mean yours was bad I just like red. I'd take either one of the Dream On's over Grandmaster's :2cents:
 
frieghttrain":d6tzd2lt said:
Margonme":d6tzd2lt said:
frieghttrain":d6tzd2lt said:
I really like the look of that red Dream On son.

I should leave this to Fire Sweep. But so far she thinks the black Dream On is better. In addition, a couple of the local big names looked at the lot of bulls. They liked the black Dream On best out of them all. I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder.
I 100% agree I just like red. I'd take either one of the Dream On's over Grandmaster's :2cents:

Fire Sweep says the Grandmaster will be great commercial bull. But not calving ease. He was 97 at birth. He weaned 860. He is a horse
 
Margonme":v5js8k7l said:
frieghttrain":v5js8k7l said:
Margonme":v5js8k7l said:
I should leave this to Fire Sweep. But so far she thinks the black Dream On is better. In addition, a couple of the local big names looked at the lot of bulls. They liked the black Dream On best out of them all. I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder.
I 100% agree I just like red. I'd take either one of the Dream On's over Grandmaster's :2cents:

Fire Sweep says the Grandmaster will be great commercial bull. But not calving ease. He was 97 at birth. He weaned 860. He is a horse

I guess I'm on a roll today. Grandmaster will make a great commercial bull? I'm more on the commercial side and I'd never use a bull that wasn't a calving ease bull. A live calf is where the $money's at, and some of us can't check our cows every day. So calving ease is a must.
 
True Grit Farms":3w4iynx5 said:
Margonme":3w4iynx5 said:
frieghttrain":3w4iynx5 said:
I 100% agree I just like red. I'd take either one of the Dream On's over Grandmaster's :2cents:

Fire Sweep says the Grandmaster will be great commercial bull. But not calving ease. He was 97 at birth. He weaned 860. He is a horse

I guess I'm on a roll today. Grandmaster will make a great commercial bull? I'm more on the commercial side and I'd never use a bull that wasn't a calving ease bull. A live calf is where the $money's at, and some of us can't check our cows every day. So calving ease is a must.

Everything has details. Forums have limitations when it comes to that.

His EPD for CE is 10.3. His dam is a Hudson Pine/Rocking P cow that spit him out like he was a pea. I was an eye witness to one of the fastest easiest births I have seen.

Getting on track. He was big, 97 pounds at birth. Our strategy is not to market him as CE. But he is in no way a cow killer. We would rather not have someone buy him to put on heifers.

CE and Growth have to be balanced. Kris has drummed that into my head. He is not a show bull but someone who wants to mash the scales with growth and some size might like this bull.
 
Margonme":2327wlqr said:
True Grit Farms":2327wlqr said:
Margonme":2327wlqr said:
Fire Sweep says the Grandmaster will be great commercial bull. But not calving ease. He was 97 at birth. He weaned 860. He is a horse

I guess I'm on a roll today. Grandmaster will make a great commercial bull? I'm more on the commercial side and I'd never use a bull that wasn't a calving ease bull. A live calf is where the $money's at, and some of us can't check our cows every day. So calving ease is a must.

Everything has details. Forums have limitations when it comes to that.

His EPD for CE is 10.3. His dam is a Hudson Pine/Rocking P cow that spit him out like he was a pea. I was an eye witness to one of the fastest easiest births I have seen.

Getting on track. He was big, 97 pounds at birth. Our strategy is not to market him as CE. But he is in no way a cow killer. We would rather not have someone buy him to put on heifers.

CE and Growth have to be balanced. Kris has drummed that into my head. He is not a show bull but someone who wants to mash the scales with growth and some size might like this bull.

I agree with all that. It's the calling him a great commercial bull that's wrong. At least wait and see how big of a calf he averages before calling him great. Isn't a 97lb calf on the extremely large side? Growth can be manipulated through feed and forage. And is a 100lb larger selling weight worth the added risks? I've seen times that a 600lb calf brings the same money as a 700lb calf. I'm just looking at things from a different angle.
 
TennesseeTuxedo":3lubn026 said:
Under normal feed conditions the calf would not have been 97 pounds. Remember, Margon feeds the snot out of his cows so the calves have the propensity to be very large at birth.

I have high birth weights. Have had the county agent examine my conditions. It is the low stocking rate and good forage.
 
True Grit Farms":3l5xl7ie said:
Margonme":3l5xl7ie said:
True Grit Farms":3l5xl7ie said:
I guess I'm on a roll today. Grandmaster will make a great commercial bull? I'm more on the commercial side and I'd never use a bull that wasn't a calving ease bull. A live calf is where the $money's at, and some of us can't check our cows every day. So calving ease is a must.

Everything has details. Forums have limitations when it comes to that.

His EPD for CE is 10.3. His dam is a Hudson Pine/Rocking P cow that spit him out like he was a pea. I was an eye witness to one of the fastest easiest births I have seen.

Getting on track. He was big, 97 pounds at birth. Our strategy is not to market him as CE. But he is in no way a cow killer. We would rather not have someone buy him to put on heifers.

CE and Growth have to be balanced. Kris has drummed that into my head. He is not a show bull but someone who wants to mash the scales with growth and some size might like this bull.

I agree with all that. It's the calling him a great commercial bull that's wrong. At least wait and see how big of a calf he averages before calling him great. Isn't a 97lb calf on the extremely large side? Growth can be manipulated through feed and forage. And is a 100lb larger selling weight worth the added risks? I've seen times that a 600lb calf brings the same money as a 700lb calf. I'm just looking at things from a different angle.

I agree. Technically, he has to prove himself.

Having said that, he is the best Damm bull this side of HEII.

:banana:
 
Margonme":1l87bgkd said:
TennesseeTuxedo":1l87bgkd said:
Under normal feed conditions the calf would not have been 97 pounds. Remember, Margon feeds the snot out of his cows so the calves have the propensity to be very large at birth.

I have high birth weights. Have had the county agent examine my conditions. It is the low stocking rate and good forage.

Margon, you over condition your cattle. We've covered this before.
 
TennesseeTuxedo":2vi0y595 said:
Margonme":2vi0y595 said:
TennesseeTuxedo":2vi0y595 said:
Under normal feed conditions the calf would not have been 97 pounds. Remember, Margon feeds the snot out of his cows so the calves have the propensity to be very large at birth.

I have high birth weights. Have had the county agent examine my conditions. It is the low stocking rate and good forage.

Margon, you over condition your cattle. We've covered this before.

I found an old thread when I first joined CT. I posted a picture of Blackie, one of my first four cows, dun commented that he had seen finished steers that were not as well conditioned as Blackie. :cboy:
 
True Grit Farms":ir4drtar said:
Margonme":ir4drtar said:
frieghttrain":ir4drtar said:
I 100% agree I just like red. I'd take either one of the Dream On's over Grandmaster's :2cents:

Fire Sweep says the Grandmaster will be great commercial bull. But not calving ease. He was 97 at birth. He weaned 860. He is a horse

I guess I'm on a roll today. Grandmaster will make a great commercial bull? I'm more on the commercial side and I'd never use a bull that wasn't a calving ease bull. A live calf is where the $money's at, and some of us can't check our cows every day. So calving ease is a must.
I'd agree with this. I'm all commercial and have a couple herds that I may not see more than twice a month during haying season. I won't go so far as a calving ease heifer bull, but I'm not interested in a bull that doesn't have a a moderate to good bw (individual and epd).
 
Look through any big bull sale catalog, and you will find a large number of bulls that are in the mid to upper 90's birthweight range. They sell fine, people look for them. If my cows can not lay down and have a calf in the 90 pound range unassisted, they get a ride. I would NOT expect a dexter to do that. But MY BREED does it daily, without assistance. There is a direct correlation between birth weight and weaning weight; smaller calves wean off lighter. People who buy bulls with bigger birth weights are looking for that. To much is lost if you use a calving ease bull for your cows.
With that said, Ron does have larger than average birthweights on his farm. This bull is no different than the other bulls I sell in that birthweight range, and if his EPD's have any accuracy, he will throw WAY lighter calves (likely in the 80 pound range). He is built right, a small head and closed in his shoulders. That means more than a birthweight!
On a side note; if you STRICTLY pick you bull based on birthweight, how do you factor in for a bull born as a result of an embryo implantation? If I put an embryo in a dexter, it will likely be MUCH SMALLER than if I put that same embryo in a big brahma cow! Same genetics, different birth weight. Birthweight is more a matter of ENVIRONMENT. But that is for another thread, another day.
 
Most average size cows can handle a 90 lb calf no doubt, but a heifer is a a crap shoot. So what your saying is someone with 20 to 30 cows and 5 replacement heifers needs two bulls to get the job done? Carrying two bulls for a year will cost you way more than you'll gain in weaning weights. Especially if 600 lb calves are bringing close to what 700 lb calves are bringing dollar wise, which they normally do around here. To me a 70 lb calf is ideal because they'll weigh 500 to 600 pounds at weaning. Smaller calves that bring close to the same money is good for my wallet, easy on feed and the cow.
 
Fire Sweep Ranch":3w50eye6 said:
Look through any big bull sale catalog, and you will find a large number of bulls that are in the mid to upper 90's birthweight range. They sell fine, people look for them. If my cows can not lay down and have a calf in the 90 pound range unassisted, they get a ride. I would NOT expect a dexter to do that. But MY BREED does it daily, without assistance. There is a direct correlation between birth weight and weaning weight; smaller calves wean off lighter. People who buy bulls with bigger birth weights are looking for that. To much is lost if you use a calving ease bull for your cows.
With that said, Ron does have larger than average birthweights on his farm. This bull is no different than the other bulls I sell in that birthweight range, and if his EPD's have any accuracy, he will throw WAY lighter calves (likely in the 80 pound range). He is built right, a small head and closed in his shoulders. That means more than a birthweight!
On a side note; if you STRICTLY pick you bull based on birthweight, how do you factor in for a bull born as a result of an embryo implantation? If I put an embryo in a dexter, it will likely be MUCH SMALLER than if I put that same embryo in a big brahma cow! Same genetics, different birth weight. Birthweight is more a matter of ENVIRONMENT. But that is for another thread, another day.
In my post I indicated that I factor in the individual bw and the bw epd. I'm sure that most of my cows could handle a 90+lb calf, but why would I buy a bull that I'd expect to have calfs that large, when there are plenty of bulls with moderate bw that the data indicate will wean calves just as big?
I'm your commercial cattleman customer, sell me what I want to buy.
 
Top