Hay waste

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Your moisture and humidity must be pretty low. In our climate it is a huge loss not to cover bales. You only need to loose a couple inches on the perimeter to get a 30% loss.

We have a world of humidity and where Nova lives it's even higher and in normal years gets more rain than we do. Bales do not rot on top. Maybe we bail it tigher or it's the type grass we grow, but it cn rain for a week and bales won't be wet a half inch deep on top and then it dries out...but you can expect to lose 4-6 inches off the bottom anytime you sit it on the ground.

I live in a climate that you are lucky if you get 3 days in a row of sunshine. We don't have very much of our hay put up dry because we don't get 3 days of sunshine :lol: But, what hay we do have put up is lined up flat end to flat end, pushed as tightly as possible, and we don't have spoilage on the top & sides either, only the bottom, which will be a couple of inches. I do think the tightness of the bale is the MOST important factor we are dealing with. The moisture simply does not penetrate a tight bale. I see pics of some peoples bales and they wouldn't last a week around here. They would be rotten to the core.
Funny, this post came up. I've been looking at my feeding sites and how well the cattle clean up all the hay. Really and truly, I'm talking minimum waste at most feeders. Now, I have a few round feeders that are falling apart, and THAT's where I have waste. But, I make my cattle clean up before I load up their feeders. I've been meaning to take some pics & post on here.

 

[farmwriter]

We have 3 separate pastures of cattle right now: in two areas we have rings, the third we use the unroller. There is noticeably more wasted hay with the rings, mainly because those cows aren't able to clean up their bales as quickly. The big pasture where we feed more bales more often barely has any trace of where hay has been. And I hate the dang callous places the other cattle get from the hay rings.
As far as storage waste, it's also been my experience that tightly rolled hay has very little rot aside from the bottom.

 

[regenwether]

Novanman. Sorry, sometime's what is on my mind does not always translate to CT. Buying vs. making your own, retaining heifers vs. purchasing relacment heifers. That type of debate I feel is a wash depending on you situation. As I stated on another post that it depend's on "what hand of cards you were delt". You can argue the economic's either way with different operations.

Hay waste is something most everybody has to manage. The spur that got up my rear end on this subject really came up a few yrs ago when Potash got so damm high!

If we treated Hay as we do Wheat or Corn I feel producers would experience less waste, granted with a little more expense .

 

[regenwether]

Jeanne-Simme Valley. I'm have the same probelm with my hay feeders. The dang things are good for a few yrs. but then just melt away. Once the welding starts to crack they don't last long. The best one's I've had in the past was built by a local welding shop. The guy retired a few yrs ago but I just found another one to build me some. I've got two on order right now. The cost isn't that much more than the one's your buy at the local feed store.

Even if it does cost more I like the custom built one's better because I have them built to my spec's. The extra $1-200/ feeders is pennies in the long run if it saves you hay.

 

[novaman]

Novanman. Sorry, sometime's what is on my mind does not always translate to CT. Buying vs. making your own, retaining heifers vs. purchasing relacment heifers. That type of debate I feel is a wash depending on you situation. As I stated on another post that it depend's on "what hand of cards you were delt". You can argue the economic's either way with different operations.

Hay waste is something most everybody has to manage. The spur that got up my rear end on this subject really came up a few yrs ago when Potash got so damm high!

If we treated Hay as we do Wheat or Corn I feel producers would experience less waste, granted with a little more expense .

Hey no harm. I thought I understood what you were saying and responded accordingly but when you came back and said I was on the wrong page I got a bit confused. Tough to convey your thoughts in words sometimes.

I do agree with you that waste can be a big issue. The problem I consistently have is when feeding small groups of animals that can't finish a bale of hay in a day. I have to put that hay in a feeder otherwise they would lay on it and make a big mess. They still make a mess with the feeder but not as bad as if I just threw the bale out there and let them have at it. I've been thinking about trying one of those feeders that SRBeef showed where the bale sits in the air and when the cows pull hay off the bale it falls INSIDE the ring for them to clean up later. They are a bit spendy and I haven't found anybody that sells them locally. Now on the bigger groups it is a piece of cake. Roll out the number of bales they can eat in 12 hours or so and it is usually licked up nearly clean the next day come feeding time.

 

[canoetrpr]

I too am finding that there is waste that I could do without at the feeder. I have two feeders. One for my 5 mature animals - 4 cows and 1 bull. Another for the 4 calves. The first group goes through a bale in 5 days. The next takes two weeks.

I see quite bit of hay makes its way outside the feeder. In hindsight, I wish I had spent the 2x the amount on one of the fancy funnel haysaver feeders. I think they might have been worth it.

 

[Cowdirt]

Novanman. Sorry, sometime's what is on my mind does not always translate to CT. Buying vs. making your own, retaining heifers vs. purchasing relacment heifers. That type of debate I feel is a wash depending on you situation. As I stated on another post that it depend's on "what hand of cards you were delt". You can argue the economic's either way with different operations.

Hay waste is something most everybody has to manage. The spur that got up my rear end on this subject really came up a few yrs ago when Potash got so damm high!

If we treated Hay as we do Wheat or Corn I feel producers would experience less waste, granted with a little more expense .

Hey no harm. I thought I understood what you were saying and responded accordingly but when you came back and said I was on the wrong page I got a bit confused. Tough to convey your thoughts in words sometimes.

I do agree with you that waste can be a big issue. The problem I consistently have is when feeding small groups of animals that can't finish a bale of hay in a day. I have to put that hay in a feeder otherwise they would lay on it and make a big mess. They still make a mess with the feeder but not as bad as if I just threw the bale out there and let them have at it. I've been thinking about trying one of those feeders that SRBeef showed where the bale sits in the air and when the cows pull hay off the bale it falls INSIDE the ring for them to clean up later. They are a bit spendy and I haven't found anybody that sells them locally. Now on the bigger groups it is a piece of cake. Roll out the number of bales they can eat in 12 hours or so and it is usually licked up nearly clean the next day come feeding time.

Nova, I bought 2 of the haysaver cone feeder built in Lavergne, TN and sold by our local co-ops. I'm running a side by side comparison with my old style hay rings. The hay savings I'm thinking will pay for this type relatively quick. One thing I've noticed is that the cows prefer the old type because they eat that hay first then move to the new ones; leaving a pretty good mess behind. I think that smaller bales with the hay farther inside the ring would result in less waste with either type of ring. If they drop a mouthful it would stay inside the ring. The type cone feeder that I bought costs about $550 ea.

 

[msscamp]

How does waste factor into the discussion of buying versus making your own? Having a lot of waste doesn't make any difference on whether to buy or make, in my opinion.

Actually it does. We raise our own hay for resale and, inevitably, we end up with a fair amount of bad bales for one reason or another - usually the weather. Those bales are recycled into soil amendment, bedding for my goats, grinding hay, or some other use. While a hay producer never wants to have hay go bad, recycling costs a lot less if you put them up yourself vs the cost of buying them and then having them go bad due to one reason or another.

 

[novatech]

In some cases, not all, one could save a lot on simply not baling their last cutting of hay. Stockpiling of that last cutting and turning the cattle in when they need that hay the first part of the season will allow it to still have a fair amount of nutrition. If it was cross fenced with movable electric even more could be saved by controlling the grazing.
If the field was over-seeded with rye/and or clover (or what ever works in your area) a spring grazing could be had. The added benefit is that the rye acts as a cover crop, scavenging the N and recycling it back into the soil. This N may otherwise be lost, in part, into the atmosphere, or leached into the ground.
I have done this on a couple of fields and found that it made an improvement on the field for the following years cut.
This will not work for everyone but if you can I would highly recommend it.

 

[novaman]

How does waste factor into the discussion of buying versus making your own? Having a lot of waste doesn't make any difference on whether to buy or make, in my opinion.

Actually it does. We raise our own hay for resale and, inevitably, we end up with a fair amount of bad bales for one reason or another - usually the weather. Those bales are recycled into soil amendment, bedding for my goats, grinding hay, or some other use. While a hay producer never wants to have hay go bad, recycling costs a lot less if you put them up yourself vs the cost of buying them and then having them go bad due to one reason or another.

I still don't see where it makes a difference whether you buy it in or put it up yourself (or even have your hay put up by a custom guy). Waste is waste whether it was bought or put up. That hay is sitting in the barn, hayyard or wherever. I believe you are saying that buying hay gets too expensive if there excess waste. However, putting up your own hay still costs a lot of money. It may not be quite as expensive as buying but than again it may be more expensive than buying. We all know that waste costs money and in the end I don't see that there is any difference where the hay came from. If you put it up you should be able to sell it for the same money as what you could buy it for. Maybe I'm missing something in your argument?

 

[B&M Farms]

in my area we deal with alot of humidity most of the year. i have seen some farms that tarp their hay. i have thought about doing this, but would think condensation would cause more rotten hay than just stacking the rolls tight on their ends and leaving to air dry?

 

[dun]

in my area we deal with alot of humidity most of the year. i have seen some farms that tarp their hay. i have thought about doing this, but would think condensation would cause more rotten hay than just stacking the rolls tight on their ends and leaving to air dry?

If you use the tarps that are made expressly for tarping hay that are breathable you don;t have the problem

 

[Angus Cowman]

in my area we deal with alot of humidity most of the year. i have seen some farms that tarp their hay. i have thought about doing this, but would think condensation would cause more rotten hay than just stacking the rolls tight on their ends and leaving to air dry?

If you use the tarps that are made expressly for tarping hay that are breathable you don;t have the problem

be sure you leave the tarp up off of the ground about a 1/3 of the way up the bottom bale and that lets it breathe better

 

[dun]

in my area we deal with alot of humidity most of the year. i have seen some farms that tarp their hay. i have thought about doing this, but would think condensation would cause more rotten hay than just stacking the rolls tight on their ends and leaving to air dry?

If you use the tarps that are made expressly for tarping hay that are breathable you don;t have the problem

be sure you leave the tarp up off of the ground about a 1/3 of the way up the bottom bale and that lets it breathe better

Also keeps the possums/skunks/etc. for setting up residence

 

[hayray]

Video link of Michigan State Extension regarding hay loss. The also did research on different feeder types. On average just 20% loss from average round bale feeders.


http://vimeo.com/10210505

 

[novaman]

just 20% loss from average round bale feeders.

I realize to some that may be acceptable but not for me. For every 5 pounds of hay you put up you are losing 1 pound. Lots of money up in smoke.

 

[TexasBred]

just 20% loss from average round bale feeders.

I realize to some that may be acceptable but not for me. For every 5 pounds of hay you put up you are losing 1 pound. Lots of money up in smoke.

Amen Bro.

 

[hayray]

just 20% loss from average round bale feeders.

I realize to some that may be acceptable but not for me. For every 5 pounds of hay you put up you are losing 1 pound. Lots of money up in smoke.

Was not implying this was acceptable.

 

[novatech]

in my area we deal with alot of humidity most of the year. i have seen some farms that tarp their hay. i have thought about doing this, but would think condensation would cause more rotten hay than just stacking the rolls tight on their ends and leaving to air dry?

You store with the end sticking up?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

in my area we deal with alot of humidity most of the year. i have seen some farms that tarp their hay. i have thought about doing this, but would think condensation would cause more rotten hay than just stacking the rolls tight on their ends and leaving to air dry?

You store with the end sticking up?

I believe he was referring to lining them up end to end in a tight row with air space between rows. At least that's how I do it.
For us, a major problem with tarping, is being able to get the tarp OFF the hay pile. And, with our severe winds, tarps tend to rip. If you have hay stacked and the tarp rips or gets a hole, then all the hay under that hole rots. I know there are good tarps that are not supposed to tear, but as I've said, our hay virtually has so little spoilage it is a non-issue. But, taking a tarp off is a major issue.