Hay Protein Level

[inyati13]

Baler lost money at 20.00, and would have been better of burning it than baling it at 15.00. It will cost you 18.00 to get hay cut raked and baled here.

Here is what I am finding out. These guys who are selling the $15 junk that TT is talking about are losing money. RBB is correct. I have met with a couple guys who do custom rake and roll. It will cost me at least 12 to 15 dollars for me to have someone come in and rake and roll.

I do not have hay equipment and I have studied it thoroughly. There is not way I will be doing this long enough starting at age 64 to ever pay for my hay equipment. What I have done the last 4 years is share crop my hay with Johnny who is my neighbor. He gets half and I get half. My hay from my farm this year tested over 12 % crude protein. I use Johnny's disc mower on my tractor and then he comes over and rakes and rolls. That forces me to go out and buy additional rolls. So this season, I am paying Johnny to rake and roll my hay. I will use his disc mower to cut it. Based on what he and I have determined he will need at least $14 a roll to make it pay for him. I get all the hay. I talked to other folks and that price may be low even for here. The point is this TT, RBB is right. Those guys selling hay for $15 a roll regardless of quality are not making money.

 

[M-5]

Same goes for folks that have a large number nput to there cattle. They ain't making money ether

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Baler lost money at 20.00, and would have been better of burning it than baling it at 15.00. It will cost you 18.00 to get hay cut raked and baled here.

Here is what I am finding out. These guys who are selling the $15 junk that TT is talking about are losing money. RBB is correct. I have met with a couple guys who do custom rake and roll. It will cost me at least 12 to 15 dollars for me to have someone come in and rake and roll.

I do not have hay equipment and I have studied it thoroughly. There is not way I will be doing this long enough starting at age 64 to ever pay for my hay equipment. What I have done the last 4 years is share crop my hay with Johnny who is my neighbor. He gets half and I get half. My hay from my farm this year tested over 12 % crude protein. I use Johnny's disc mower on my tractor and then he comes over and rakes and rolls. That forces me to go out and buy additional rolls. So this season, I am paying Johnny to rake and roll my hay. I will use his disc mower to cut it. Based on what he and I have determined he will need at least $14 a roll to make it pay for him. I get all the hay. I talked to other folks and that price may be low even for here. The point is this TT, RBB is right. Those guys selling hay for $15 a roll regardless of quality are not making money.

It is not my responsibility to ensure the man who prices his hay at $15.00 is profitable.

 

[inyati13]

Baler lost money at 20.00, and would have been better of burning it than baling it at 15.00. It will cost you 18.00 to get hay cut raked and baled here.

Here is what I am finding out. These guys who are selling the $15 junk that TT is talking about are losing money. RBB is correct. I have met with a couple guys who do custom rake and roll. It will cost me at least 12 to 15 dollars for me to have someone come in and rake and roll.

I do not have hay equipment and I have studied it thoroughly. There is not way I will be doing this long enough starting at age 64 to ever pay for my hay equipment. What I have done the last 4 years is share crop my hay with Johnny who is my neighbor. He gets half and I get half. My hay from my farm this year tested over 12 % crude protein. I use Johnny's disc mower on my tractor and then he comes over and rakes and rolls. That forces me to go out and buy additional rolls. So this season, I am paying Johnny to rake and roll my hay. I will use his disc mower to cut it. Based on what he and I have determined he will need at least $14 a roll to make it pay for him. I get all the hay. I talked to other folks and that price may be low even for here. The point is this TT, RBB is right. Those guys selling hay for $15 a roll regardless of quality are not making money.

It is not my responsibility to ensure the man who prices his hay at $15.00 is profitable.

Not mine either. I am simply confirming the point RBB made. I know this from being on the Ky Cattle Asso for our county. A significant percent of the Producers are not costing their operations as they should be. They do not account well for capital costs either because they do not understand how capital works or maybe they don't care because they are producers for a different reason than making money. Your taxes are no a true metric for determining if your cattle operation is making money. You have to consider other ways that same capital could be employed. Guys who cut hay and sell it are not costing their inputs and capital as they should. If they did, they would discover that they are investing $20 in a roll of hay that they are selling for $17.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Controlling your costs when it comes to hay seems to be one of the biggest pains in the kester I've learned so far about the cattle business.

 

[inyati13]

Controlling your costs when it comes to hay seems to be one of the biggest pains in the kester I've learned so far about the cattle business.

I am discovering the same thing.

 

[AllForage]

Controlling your costs when it comes to hay seems to be one of the biggest pains in the kester I've learned so far about the cattle business.

Especially so if you purchase all of it.

 

[BobbyLummus]

I have two horse boarding barns and feed cows through winter . I buy hay year around and have been for years , Bought from everyone within 60 miles or so . I use to try and find the best deal $20-25 4x4 or 4x5 bales that would weigh around 700 lbs . Last two years I've been paying $65 for 4x6 bales that surprising tested at %17 this past year , last year was %15 . Think its wheat , oats , red clover , clean fescue . They weigh close to 1500 lbs . I will never buy any other hay again if I can help it, no doubt the quality heavy bales I've been paying up for are the better deal !

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Controlling your costs when it comes to hay seems to be one of the biggest pains in the kester I've learned so far about the cattle business.

Especially so if you purchase all of it.

We grow the majority of our hay.

 

[jedstivers]

For 25 dollars a bale you can't bale and fertilize it. Will I understand you are paying the prices the area will bare they ones selling won't be staying in business unless thy are making a profit.
Find someone who knows what they are doing and pay them for their product or buy the 15 dollar stuff and add some ddg's. You should have good access to them.
Lots of ways in this business to make it or loose it. One area is diffrent from another, you have to identify what's best and worse. Never quit looking to better what you are doing.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

A lot of that cheaper hay is from the extra the person that is baling an empty field collects. Out here, a lot of people have 20ish acres, and they just want someone to keep the land cut. So there are lots of guys that will cut your grass and they keep the hay. The only input they have is the fuel and equipment cost to cut the grass. They sell the hay they cut for $25, never having any input in the land. They figure they are making $10 a roll profit. Are there many out there that do that in other areas?

 

[jedstivers]

A lot of that cheaper hay is from the extra the person that is baling an empty field collects. Out here, a lot of people have 20ish acres, and they just want someone to keep the land cut. So there are lots of guys that will cut your grass and they keep the hay. The only input they have is the fuel and equipment cost to cut the grass. They sell the hay they cut for $25, never having any input in the land. They figure they are making $10 a roll profit. Are there many out there that do that in other areas?

Any of that has any N,P&K?

 

[inyati13]

A lot of that cheaper hay is from the extra the person that is baling an empty field collects. Out here, a lot of people have 20ish acres, and they just want someone to keep the land cut. So there are lots of guys that will cut your grass and they keep the hay. The only input they have is the fuel and equipment cost to cut the grass. They sell the hay they cut for $25, never having any input in the land. They figure they are making $10 a roll profit. Are there many out there that do that in other areas?

Yes, common practice. Cattle growers develop a longstanding relationship with a widow woman, a retired stateworker, city folks who want the weeds (hay) cut, etc. They cut their weed fields (hay) each summer and both parties seem to be happy. The cattle grower uses the hay unless he has a surplus. Then, he might find a sucker to buy it. Otherwise, the surplus sets there until it rots. I see it all the time.

These are the common characteristics of this kind of hay:
1. Rarely harvested at the proper time.
2. Hay is not fertilized.
3. Full of weeds: Queen Anne's Lace, ragweed, golden rod, blackberry biers, multi-flora rose, poison hemlock, chicory, etc.
4. The leafy part of the hay is absent, mostly tough stems.
5. Moldy.
6. Pieces of wood from mowing along treelines.
7. Trash.
8. Sets out in weather half the summer so when you get it the bottom third is rotted.

It would be better to go to a recycle center and buy cardboard. It would also fill their bellies. The guys who feed this can be spotted from the highway. Their cows are skin and bones. Poor things stagger when they get up. Sometimes they cannot get up. These are the same guys who tell me you should count on losing 10% of your herd on an annual basis. I like some of these guys and some are personal friends. They been doin' this for 40 and 50 years. You would be wasting your time explaining nutrition to them.

 

[highgrit]

I baled 200 rolls of that stuff last year. And had it as a border around the back of the property. My son ran a ad on Craigslist and sold it all for $20. a roll. That's the poor hay that I had tested. Inyati to make money with cows you need to find a happy medium, when it comes to feeding. I just can't make our cows work for their food. We keep decent hay out all the time, and we feed the wet cow's good or better hay free choice. But paying $65. - $70. a roll for hay hurts the bottom line.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

A lot of that cheaper hay is from the extra the person that is baling an empty field collects. Out here, a lot of people have 20ish acres, and they just want someone to keep the land cut. So there are lots of guys that will cut your grass and they keep the hay. The only input they have is the fuel and equipment cost to cut the grass. They sell the hay they cut for $25, never having any input in the land. They figure they are making $10 a roll profit. Are there many out there that do that in other areas?

Yes, common practice. Cattle growers develop a longstanding relationship with a widow woman, a retired stateworker, city folks who want the weeds (hay) cut, etc. They cut their weed fields (hay) each summer and both parties seem to be happy. The cattle grower uses the hay unless he has a surplus. Then, he might find a sucker to buy it. Otherwise, the surplus sets there until it rots. I see it all the time.

These are the common characteristics of this kind of hay:
1. Rarely harvested at the proper time.
2. Hay is not fertilized.
3. Full of weeds: Queen Anne's Lace, ragweed, golden rod, blackberry biers, multi-flora rose, poison hemlock, chicory, etc.
4. The leafy part of the hay is absent, mostly tough stems.
5. Moldy.
6. Pieces of wood from mowing along treelines.
7. Trash.
8. Sets out in weather half the summer so when you get it the bottom third is rotted.

It would be better to go to a recycle center and buy cardboard. It would also fill their bellies. The guys who feed this can be spotted from the highway. Their cows are skin and bones. Poor things stagger when they get up. Sometimes they cannot get up. These are the same guys who tell me you should count on losing 10% of your herd on an annual basis. I like some of these guys and some are personal friends. They been doin' this for 40 and 50 years. You would be wasting your time explaining nutrition to them.

I bet they have very few 100 lb calves.

 

[inyati13]

I baled 200 rolls of that stuff last year. And had it as a border around the back of the property. My son ran a ad on Craigslist and sold it all for $20. a roll. That's the poor hay that I had tested. Inyati to make money with cows you need to find a happy medium, when it comes to feeding. I just can't make our cows work for their food. We keep decent hay out all the time, and we feed the wet cow's good or better hay free choice. But paying $65. - $70. a roll for hay hurts the bottom line.

Agreed. This is an on-going effort in our county to improve nutrition. Our UK agent knows cattle nutrition needs to be improved in our county. There is hay being fed all winter that is worse than the hay I bought. Lucky has been a strong advocate of good nutrition and so is TexasBred. I think I can get good hay for $35 to $45 a roll. I have done a lot to improve my hayland (lime and fertilizer), I should be better off now that I am keeping all my own hay rather than giving half of it to Johnny. But it cost money. I will not only have the cost to rake and roll but the cost of keeping the hayland producing (fertilizer, seed, lime). I bet I will still have close to $25 in a roll.

 

[inyati13]

A lot of that cheaper hay is from the extra the person that is baling an empty field collects. Out here, a lot of people have 20ish acres, and they just want someone to keep the land cut. So there are lots of guys that will cut your grass and they keep the hay. The only input they have is the fuel and equipment cost to cut the grass. They sell the hay they cut for $25, never having any input in the land. They figure they are making $10 a roll profit. Are there many out there that do that in other areas?

Yes, common practice. Cattle growers develop a longstanding relationship with a widow woman, a retired stateworker, city folks who want the weeds (hay) cut, etc. They cut their weed fields (hay) each summer and both parties seem to be happy. The cattle grower uses the hay unless he has a surplus. Then, he might find a sucker to buy it. Otherwise, the surplus sets there until it rots. I see it all the time.

These are the common characteristics of this kind of hay:
1. Rarely harvested at the proper time.
2. Hay is not fertilized.
3. Full of weeds: Queen Anne's Lace, ragweed, golden rod, blackberry biers, multi-flora rose, poison hemlock, chicory, etc.
4. The leafy part of the hay is absent, mostly tough stems.
5. Moldy.
6. Pieces of wood from mowing along treelines.
7. Trash.
8. Sets out in weather half the summer so when you get it the bottom third is rotted.

It would be better to go to a recycle center and buy cardboard. It would also fill their bellies. The guys who feed this can be spotted from the highway. Their cows are skin and bones. Poor things stagger when they get up. Sometimes they cannot get up. These are the same guys who tell me you should count on losing 10% of your herd on an annual basis. I like some of these guys and some are personal friends. They been doin' this for 40 and 50 years. You would be wasting your time explaining nutrition to them.

I bet they have very few 100 lb calves.

TT, You have a great sense of humor. I bet you are right. :lol:

This hay and big calves is killing me. I am posting a recent picture to show how it has aged me......

 

[jedstivers]

I baled 200 rolls of that stuff last year. And had it as a border around the back of the property. My son ran a ad on Craigslist and sold it all for $20. a roll. That's the poor hay that I had tested. Inyati to make money with cows you need to find a happy medium, when it comes to feeding. I just can't make our cows work for their food. We keep decent hay out all the time, and we feed the wet cow's good or better hay free choice. But paying $65. - $70. a roll for hay hurts the bottom line.

Agreed. This is an on-going effort in our county to improve nutrition. Our UK agent knows cattle nutrition needs to be improved in our county. There is hay being fed all winter that is worse than the hay I bought. Lucky has been a strong advocate of good nutrition and so is TexasBred. I think I can get good hay for $35 to $45 a roll. I have done a lot to improve my hayland (lime and fertilizer), I should be better off now that I am keeping all my own hay rather than giving half of it to Johnny. But it cost money. I will not only have the cost to rake and roll but the cost of keeping the hayland
producing (fertilizer, seed, lime). I bet I will still have close to $25 in a roll.

Lime, Fert, and paying to bale it I bet you end up with more than 25.
Now don't forget your cows don't have to have that hay for every bite they eat. You can test it and the junk hay and blend. You just have to get so much energy and protein in them per day. The rest can be junk filler. Also sort them by dry, breed, stage of pregnancy, lactating, cows, heifers ect.
Also don't forget what I said about ddg.
Here we use cottonseed instead of ddg because its cheaper. Rice brand is the only other byproduct we local. We also use corn we raise.
There's lots of ways to do this.

 

[highgrit]

I have close to $20. a roll in just fertilizer and lime on average. But it's the same quality that I'm buying for $50. - $ 60. a roll for now.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

A lot of that cheaper hay is from the extra the person that is baling an empty field collects. Out here, a lot of people have 20ish acres, and they just want someone to keep the land cut. So there are lots of guys that will cut your grass and they keep the hay. The only input they have is the fuel and equipment cost to cut the grass. They sell the hay they cut for $25, never having any input in the land. They figure they are making $10 a roll profit. Are there many out there that do that in other areas?

Any of that has any N,P&K?

Nope, no input. Just empty fields, or large lawns, that people want cut. So could be full of weeds, stale, rank, or good stuff.