Hay gouging

[Brandonm2]

Most of the hay growers in my area do not fertilize, some do. It's just a feild grass mixture, canary grass, fetch, clover, and other grasses (not sure what's in it). It may be junk, but the cows like it and they come through in the spring in very good shape and throw a healthly calf with lots of vigor. I winter on feild grass and minerals, and worm twice a year. I have no complaints about the quaility of the local hay.
Alan

It is the same here.....except our hay is some mixture of fescue (or bermuda/bahia), timothy, sericea lespedeza, button clover, rescuegrass, johnsongrass, white clover, and rye. Very few cow hay fields are ever fertilized. Most USED to be cow pastures but the owners got tired of fixing the fences and leased them to somebody too bale.

 

[shorty]

We have to face it , there is a hay shortage and prices are high . I make more hay than I need for my cattle and sell the rest, this year I don't have much left to sell at these high prices. You are complaining about hay growers taking advantage of the high hay prices, let me ask you a question , if cattle prices would go up 400% would you be a nice guy and sell your cattle at last years prices?

 

[novatech]

We have to face it , there is a hay shortage and prices are high . I make more hay than I need for my cattle and sell the rest, this year I don't have much left to sell at these high prices. You are complaining about hay growers taking advantage of the high hay prices, let me ask you a question , if cattle prices would go up 400% would you be a nice guy and sell your cattle at last years prices?

If you were selling hay would you sell for less than anyone else in the area?
Weather changes have been occurring since time began. These changes have been affecting farmers and ranchers since agriculture began. Those that are unprepared cry. Those that did prepare go on as usual.
Prices on hay are no different than any other commodity, supply and demand will always set the price.

 

[grannysoo]

Alan this goes back to having at least a half winter to a full season in reserve. Have to plan for a rainy day or the lack of, it is part of the business. Option 1 buy the hay grin and bear it 2 cull cows to reduce hay requirements 3 start producing your own.

I think if you looked at the actual cost of a hay field and the equipment it takes to produce it after you finish with your pencil it's still probabaly a bargin.

This is one of the smartest things that has ever been said on this board.

1. Plan for a rainy day or lack thereof.
2. Pay the piper or cull the cows.
3. Produce your own.

Everyone here that is not doing it needs to try option 3 and produce your own. Run on out and spend 50K or more getting good hay equipment, pay that fertilizer bill every year, spend your time in that 100 + degree southern weather and just have some fun with it.

When you factor in all of the costs of making hay, IT'S NOT CHEAP! Don't get me wrong, I'm not into price gouging, but when you have years like this (high fuel, drought, high fertilizer costs), it may cost $25 - 40 per roll to bale your own hay. Factor in the cost of equipment, your time, your maintenance, and it's easy to have $50.00 per roll in doing your own hay.

Bale your own and you'll soon stop complaining....

 

[Alan]

We have to face it , there is a hay shortage and prices are high . I make more hay than I need for my cattle and sell the rest, this year I don't have much left to sell at these high prices. You are complaining about hay growers taking advantage of the high hay prices, let me ask you a question , if cattle prices would go up 400% would you be a nice guy and sell your cattle at last years prices?

I haven't had time to post, let alone spend much time at the computer lately, but this one has me taking another look. Some of you folks are still missing the point of my original post. This post is not about supply and demand, or about real, legit, hay shortages.... it's about manufactured (made up) hay shortages for the purpose of running up hay prices. I have no doubt, I can do the math, that baling your own hay is not cost effective, unless you can do several hundred ton. It's not about stocking up for the winter, I have always done that. Again, when I originally posted last spring on this subject, it was about some of my previous hay suppliers refusing to sell to anyone so they can hope to charge more when folks got low. In our area we do not have a hay shortage, we did the year before, which is what inspired these guys greed. They sold that years hay at what they considered to be a fair price and by Feb. folks where giving top $ for floor sweepings. Not this year, we had a good spring and yeild a good crop of hay. I'm still finding plenty of $60 to $65 per ton hay (grass/alfalfa mix) at our local exporter. I bought 10 tons last month and 4 more tons a week ago. Out here we are a little more than half way through winter and I have plenty of hay, no thanks to the greed of some of out local producers.

Again, this is not about the cost of producing hay or legit hay shortages. It's about producers creating a fake hay shortage.

To answer a question, no I would not hang on to my cattle to hope to create the price to go up, I don't think many hay producers can control the market price of hay on their own.

One bit of good info I did get out of this post was when someone said that the horse owners can be blamed for some of the pricing of small bales. It turned on a light for my thoughts on this subject and I own horses...

Alan

 

[Troop]

Again, this is not about the cost of producing hay or legit hay shortages. It's about producers creating a fake hay shortage.
Alan

Looks like a business oppertunity to me.

Truck in some hay and under cut their price.

 

[Alan]

Again, this is not about the cost of producing hay or legit hay shortages. It's about producers creating a fake hay shortage.
Alan

Looks like a business oppertunity to me.

Truck in some hay and under cut their price.

The local hay exporter is already selling a bunch of hay to locals for "what they consider" is fair price, I consider it fair also. Maybe next year the local producers will come down to earth and treat their clients fairly, until the exporter makes me go somewhere else for what ever reason (out of hay, ect), I'll buy from them.

Alan

 

[Brandonm2]

Maybe I am too capitalistic; but IF you can buy the stuff for $25 a roll or less because the guy needs the money and/or the barn is full and/or nobody else is buying then DO IT. The flip side of that is when there is little hay in the barn, the guy doesn't need the money today, and dozens of people want it I see nothing at all "WRONG" with the guy charging $50, 60, 70, or $100 a roll.

 

[BusterBrown]

I wonder why we don't have hay auctions like the one Angie2 mentioned in that other thread in Sauk Center Mn.? That would be the best way for price discovery and put the hay into a market like cattle are, where the buyer determines the price, not the seller. If the seller didn't get the price he needed for his product, he could haul it on back to the barn. Looking at the results of that auction, the prices are about what you would pay for the hay anyway. That would indicate that the prices are what the market will bear in that area. Although it seems to be more for the dairy man than the beef cattle man. I would like to see auctions located in these Southern States to market hay. It would be a fair method of marketing the feed.

 

[redfornow]

Maybe I am too capitalistic; but IF you can buy the stuff for $25 a roll or less because the guy needs the money and/or the barn is full and/or nobody else is buying then DO IT. The flip side of that is when there is little hay in the barn, the guy doesn't need the money today, and dozens of people want it I see nothing at all "WRONG" with the guy charging $50, 60, 70, or $100 a roll.

I agree. Its all marketing.

Who gets to say what is to high?

Dont buy and see how it turns out.

 

[TheBullLady]

Last year central Texas was in the situation you in Florida, Alabama, Georgia, etc. are this year. It's a win/win situation for a hay producer, but in an average year, he's selling for not much over his cost to get rid of it. We chose to have alfalfa hauled in from Minnesota and Canada, because it was more cost effective for us.

As to making your own hay... not only is the equipment expensive, but so is your time! For us, it's more cost effective to work and pay for hay than it is to bale it ourselves. Depends on your operation, and what you're producing. (Seed stock, feeders, etc.)

 

[Tod Dague]

Last year central Texas was in the situation you in Florida, Alabama, Georgia, etc. are this year. It's a win/win situation for a hay producer, but in an average year, he's selling for not much over his cost to get rid of it. We chose to have alfalfa hauled in from Minnesota and Canada, because it was more cost effective for us.

As to making your own hay... not only is the equipment expensive, but so is your time! For us, it's more cost effective to work and pay for hay than it is to bale it ourselves. Depends on your operation, and what you're producing. (Seed stock, feeders, etc.)

I wouldn't necessarily call it a win/win for the hay producer. They have a lot less product to sell with the same expense during a drought.

 

[Brandonm2]

Last year central Texas was in the situation you in Florida, Alabama, Georgia, etc. are this year. It's a win/win situation for a hay producer, but in an average year, he's selling for not much over his cost to get rid of it. We chose to have alfalfa hauled in from Minnesota and Canada, because it was more cost effective for us.

As to making your own hay... not only is the equipment expensive, but so is your time! For us, it's more cost effective to work and pay for hay than it is to bale it ourselves. Depends on your operation, and what you're producing. (Seed stock, feeders, etc.)

I wouldn't necessarily call it a win/win for the hay producer. They have a lot less product to sell with the same expense during a drought.

Exactly, I think most hay guys would much rather have mountains of hay to market than have 20% yields or have to spend money pumping irrigation water. It costs just as much money to drive a tractor over a low yielding field as it does a high yielding one. Even when the return per bale is triple the normal price the total cash return may favor the hay glutted market.

 

[TexasBred]

Nobody is getting screwed over. Value is relative. Something is worth what it will bring. You gave 4 times as much?? Guess it was worth it to you or you wouldn't have bought it. Bet if you priced your livestock the same way and someone bought them all you would laugh all the way to the bank. It works both ways.

"I am not screwed unless I think I'm screwed".

 

[backhoeboogie]

I have surplus hay. Heavily fertilized and full of protein. Some of it sells from time to time. I could dump it if I chose. No reason to do so. It will all go eventually. It always will. There's no need to gouge and there is no need to take a loss either.