Hay gouging

[Alan]

A few months back I was complaining that some of my hay suppliers elected to hang on to their hay supply to wait for despert times this winter. I have always paid about $2 per 60lb bale in the past. We had a hay shortage last year that was pretty bad and now these gougers are trying to inflate the price of hay by creating a shortage. I had one of my past suppliers call me and tell me he is "ready to release some of his hay", I could have up to 300 bales for $8 per bale. 400% mark up over the year before... not bad. I told him no thanks, but will admit I didn't burn any bridges.

I still have about 10 ton in the barn and just picked up 6 ton of alfalfa/grass mix from our local hay exporter for $60 a ton, they have about 400 ton to sell, with many truck loads comming in everday (locals can buy anything other than premium grade)..... I hope these guys who sat on their hay get stuck with it.

Just my thoughts.....
Alan

 

[Jogeephus]

Alan, I have two very close friends who are in the hay business in a big way. From watching them and listening to them talk and give their pitch, I'll agree that some of our shortage is man-made. Not saying they aren't due a raise but some of their arguments are hilarious to hear. Since I am not at their mercy and I am a friend; when we are in private, I throw their words back in their face - in serious jest. They just smile and mix themselves another drink and try and come up with something more plausible that I can't shoot holes in. :lol:

Of course, they probably know more about the hay business than I do since they are the only people I know that can make 8-10 4x6' bales of horse quality hay per cutting. ;-)

 

[Rangenerd]

Hate to tell you this, but there is a shortage of hay here in the west. Many of the ranches around here in NE California only put up half of the hay they did last year. The spring was so dry, that the nonirragated land didn't make a crop. As a result we are forced to use the "good hay" that we normally sell, as our stock cow hay. We are having 3 or 4 people a week calling asking if we have any hay to sell, We should have some extra, but we aren't going to turn it loose until early spring when we see what the winter is going to be, and we see we don't need it. Then people are going to pay dearly for it. Hay is all ready up $65 per ton over last year.

 

[Susie David]

Over here the market is rising every week...I expect $300.00 per ton by March...thankfull for having a barn full, half aflalfa and half feeder hay.
I hate to see double loads heading west to the super compactor and then overseas.
Just my two bits worth. Dmc

 

[bigbull338]

i bought some top costal hay for $5 a bale.an thats as cheap as you can get good square bales around here.

 

[Sir Loin]

Hey boys and gals that's capitalism at work here in America and I wouldn't have it any other way. It's a simple case of supply and demand and that is what made America great!

Have you never heard you should always plan ahead for a rainy day, or the lack thereof?

We just bought 2,000 bales of corn and soybean stubble for $25. per to get through the winter and you don't see me crying a river.
I certainly hope you are not suggesting some sort of government regulation controlling the price of hay. Because if you are, after the price of hay is fixed, the price of cattle will be next.
Then you will really have something to cry about.
Ya know you are not the first people to face this problem and will not be the last, so learn deal with it!!
SL

 

[Alan]

Hey boys and gals that's capitalism at work here in America and I wouldn't have it any other way. It's a simple case of supply and demand and that is what made America great!

Have you never heard you should always plan ahead for a rainy day, or the lack thereof?

We just bought 2,000 bales of corn and soybean stubble for $25. per to get through the winter and you don't see me crying a river.
I certainly hope you are not suggesting some sort of government regulation controlling the price of hay. Because if you are, after the price of hay is fixed, the price of cattle will be next.
Then you will really have something to cry about.
Ya know you are not the first people to face this problem and will not be the last, so learn deal with it!!
SL

You're right, it is supply and demand, but some of the local producers are hanging on to their hay to hope to get $250 to $300 per ton, just because that is the way it was last year (short growing season). Not this year, lots of hay, in our area. So one guy has small bales, cow quality at $8 per bale, in the paper. Another outfit, even if it is the exporter, has 400 ton at $60 per ton.... you figure out if it is gouging or not.

Ths is not a whine, it's hoping some locals get burned for their greed.... we do not have a hay shortage, it's made up.

I'll buy enough $60 per ton hay to get me through, or close to it and tell all my buddies. Rather than get burned for a 400% mark up, I'll travel to eastern part of the state and buy horse quality hay for $150 to $175 per ton.

Alan

 

[somn]

Hey boys and gals that's capitalism at work here in America and I wouldn't have it any other way. It's a simple case of supply and demand and that is what made America great!

Have you never heard you should always plan ahead for a rainy day, or the lack thereof?

We just bought 2,000 bales of corn and soybean stubble for $25. per to get through the winter and you don't see me crying a river.
I certainly hope you are not suggesting some sort of government regulation controlling the price of hay. Because if you are, after the price of hay is fixed, the price of cattle will be next.
Then you will really have something to cry about.
Ya know you are not the first people to face this problem and will not be the last, so learn deal with it!!
SL

How much did those bales weigh that were bought for $25?

 

[cfpinz]

Hey boys and gals that's capitalism at work here in America and I wouldn't have it any other way. It's a simple case of supply and demand and that is what made America great!

Have you never heard you should always plan ahead for a rainy day, or the lack thereof?

We just bought 2,000 bales of corn and soybean stubble for $25. per to get through the winter and you don't see me crying a river.
I certainly hope you are not suggesting some sort of government regulation controlling the price of hay. Because if you are, after the price of hay is fixed, the price of cattle will be next.
Then you will really have something to cry about.
Ya know you are not the first people to face this problem and will not be the last, so learn deal with it!!
SL

That was rude. Pretty easy to call others whiners when you don't own a cow and someone else (the "we" you often refer to) assumes all the risk and makes all the decisions. Get a life.

cfpinz

 

[Calman]

Hey boys and gals that's capitalism at work here in America and I wouldn't have it any other way. It's a simple case of supply and demand and that is what made America great!

Have you never heard you should always plan ahead for a rainy day, or the lack thereof?

We just bought 2,000 bales of corn and soybean stubble for $25. per to get through the winter and you don't see me crying a river.
I certainly hope you are not suggesting some sort of government regulation controlling the price of hay. Because if you are, after the price of hay is fixed, the price of cattle will be next.
Then you will really have something to cry about.
Ya know you are not the first people to face this problem and will not be the last, so learn deal with it!!
SL

That was rude. Pretty easy to call others whiners when you don't own a cow and someone else (the "we" you often refer to) assumes all the risk and makes all the decisions. Get a life.

cfpinz[/quote

And on the other hand being Americans we also have the right to WHINE if we wish to.

Cal

 

[grannysoo]

There is not a shortage in our "immediate" area, but there is going to be a big time hay shortage in Georgia this year. I sold everything I had last year, including some that got dragged out of the woods (junk hay). Everybody sold everything that they had. There is no reserve here like in the past. What has been cut this year is all that is available.

I don't believe in gouging, but if you come to me to buy hay, I wouldn't sell you any now either. I am not one of the "big boys" in the hay business, but I do have a couple of regular customers that I will take care of with hay and a good price. Also have to have enough to feed my girls... What's left will be going to one of the "big boys" in the business that will buy hay from me in good years and bad.

I want to complain about the price of diesel fuel, fertilize, that $32,000 hay baler I bought a couple of years ago, the price of net-wrap, tire prices for the tractors, grease for the bearings, motor oil for the engines, etc. Fuel has more than doubled, so has everything else.

Don't beat up on me for saying this, but the price of hay needed to go up.........

 

[Alan]

Don't beat up on me for saying this, but the price of hay needed to go up.........

I don't have a problem with that statement, I drive a deisel, and buy equipment for our business. I also pay the raising prices due to product shipment. But my business suppliers (nothing to do with cattle) won't set on their product hoping to get a 400% increase out of it in 1 year. If they did I would do exactly what I did..... buy somewhere else and become loyal to them, plus tell everyone I know where to get the product at a reasonable price.

Don't get me wrong, just as fuel price have, I realize hay may have to go up, with everything else. My problem is my regular suppliers refusing to sell to anyone, just to create a false hay shortage is wrong. I think I proved my point by a earlier post; one of my past suppliers has grass hay for $265 per ton, one of my other suppliers has it for $60 per ton, they just got it in last week.

I have no problem with a natural inflation to the hay market, but don't screw me over.

Alan

 

[backhoeboogie]

one of my other suppliers has it for $60 per ton, they just got it in last week.

I have no problem with a natural inflation to the hay market, but don't screw me over.

Alan

If I sold hay to you at $60 a ton, usually I'd be losing nickels.

If someone had hay for sell at $60 a ton, It can't have much strength in it. They were importing junk hay here last year and getting twice the price of horse quality hay.

We have had this discussion before. If you don't like the prices, grow your own. Once you price fertilizer, reality is going to set in hard. Increased diesel prices don't compare to the increase in fertilizer price.

 

[Frankie]

one of my other suppliers has it for $60 per ton, they just got it in last week.

I have no problem with a natural inflation to the hay market, but don't screw me over.

Alan

If I sold hay to you at $60 a ton, usually I'd be losing nickels.

If someone had hay for sell at $60 a ton, It can't have much strength in it. They were importing junk hay here last year and getting twice the price of horse quality hay.

We have had this discussion before. If you don't like the prices, grow your own. Once you price fertilizer, reality is going to set in hard. Increased diesel prices don't compare to the increase in fertilizer price.

We paid almost as much for hay this year as we did last year when it was too dry to grow grass or hay. But it's much better hay this year. When you consider that gas prices (and probably diesel) are up about $1 compared to last year and were up about $1 compared to the year before that, how can you expect the people who grow, cut, bale, deliver hay to keep prices down?

 

[Alan]

We have had this discussion before. If you don't like the prices, grow your own. Once you price fertilizer, reality is going to set in hard. Increased diesel prices don't compare to the increase in fertilizer price.

Yea, I know this is not a new topic for me, can you really justify a 400% increase in one year? BTW, most local suppliers in my area do not fertilize. As I did last time you said "grow your own", I thought it wasn't much of a statement (makes zero sense) and showed me you are missing the point. But maybe you can tell me as a hay producer, how you would justify things to your hay buyers holding on to your hay during the haying season so you can bump the price 400% over the year before?

This is not a post about the increasing costs of producing hay (I accept that fact and am willing to price the reasonable inflated price). It's about refusing to sell to regular clients, and jacking the price by 400% in one year..... how would you justify that to your cleints.

I only bring it up again because of the 400 ton I found at 60 per ton, BTW it's a grass alfalfa mix and the cows love it. One guy wants $265 per ton, another (huge hay outlet) wants $60 per ton.... please explain the justification in that.

Alan

 

[holly heifer]

:clap: Could not have said it better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kudos to
you!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dieselbeef]

i buy 4x5 round bales around 600-800lbs ea of hermathia grass and if i had to buy it by the ton it would be over 60$. they get 40-65$ per roll here. i have heard rumors of 30$ /roll hay but even the crappiest hay is never less than 35$...and i gotta go get it. 14 rolls at a time. im apyin almost riple what yall are doin..buy mostly im happy to be able to get it..cuz its real bad when ya cant

 

[Jogeephus]

Alan, don't you just love it when someone p's on your head and tells you its raining? Or when they try to sell a rat's arse hole to a blind man for a wedding band?

The last time we had a shortage, people ran hay up. Also didn't fulfill prior agreements made well in advance "cause they didn't have any" yet they were advertising in the paper as having hay for sale. Getting stuck once was enough for me to just do it myself. Kinda formed a loose coalition with another fella. Between the two of us, the hay guys now have about 4-5 thousand extra rolls they can sell to whoever they want. In my opinion, it was blind greed and foolish business practices on their part. Personally, I would rather sell several hundred rolls to one person who prompty pays me rather than getting an extra $10 a roll for the sell of one maybe two rolls at a time and maybe getting paid and maybe not. But that's just me. I'm not mad at any of these guys, just a little disappointed in them.

 

[IL Rancher]

A lot of hay around here got sent down south so instead of having real high supplies local they are getting pretty tight... I called around, just wanted a couple semi loads brought in and prices were all over the place from 100 or so a ton all the way up to 170+.. A lot depending on how far you had to truck it to get it in.. Even the local guys are charginga bit more than usual because they know they can sell it somewhere else..

I know if I was selling hay I would be tempted to hold some. Kind of smart buisness if you know that nationally you are going to be able to move it come January. Of course, you did what you felt was right in not buying from them and if more people do that than they will be left holding a bunch of hay. The gamble could play out good for them or not.. Now adays with rent around here pushing 200 an acre on okay land if you get 6 tons an acre you already have 33 bucks a ton sunk in either rent or cost of oportunity.. Add in the fertilizer, interest, fuel,seeding establishment, equipment and time... I dunno, looking at it baled corn stalks or better yet grazed stalk fields is looking better and better.

 

[Beef11]

Its called marketing. Who on earth would pay a dollar for 20 oz of water when you can pump it out of the ground for about .20 per thousand gallons? Yet it happens. I don't buy bottled water, i would guess Alan doesn't either.