Hay bad for calves?

[Hippie Rancher]

from the link Alice posted:

Energy requirements in calves are great, and the need to develop a functional rumen is a priority, therefore the addition of forage should begin only after the calf has reached 12 weeks of age.

I don't think you are going to hurt them to leave a flake of hay out - if nothing else to alleviate boredom. Obviously it should not be the primary source of food.

 

[hgfarmer]

from the link Alice posted:

Energy requirements in calves are great, and the need to develop a functional rumen is a priority, therefore the addition of forage should begin only after the calf has reached 12 weeks of age.

I don't think you are going to hurt them to leave a flake of hay out - if nothing else to alleviate boredom. Obviously it should not be the primary source of food.

Yea, I think some people thought I was stuffing my calves with nothing but hay. From now on Ill just put a blade or two out every once and a while. They usually just make a mess of it all anyway.

 

[Keren]

Most of the time if you see a baby calf eating hay it is because they dont have anything else to eat or are not getting what they need.

This is my thinking also. If a baby has proper nutrition (milk) they will barley nibble on anything else.

Okay, I'm just going to be blunt here - you are wrong.

When a calf is born, the abomasum is significantly larger than the rumen. An adult bovine has ratios of about 80% rumen, 5% reticulum, 8% omasum and 7% abomasum (% of total stomach volume). But at birth the figures for rumen and abomasum are almost reversed.

This is because of the oesophogeal groove (also known as the reticular groove) which pops up on these boards quite frequently, which ensures that milk goes directly to the abomasum, rather than the rumen where it will

a) be broken down completely giving very little nutrition to the calf, and
b) introduce bacterial into the rumen which ordinarily would not be there - rumen bacteria is ingested when the calf begins to nibble grass, and the population slowly grows and the rumen develops in conjunction with this. By introducing the 'wrong' bacteria, the 'right' bacteria are slower to develop.

By withholding green feed, roughage etc from a calf's diet, you will delay development of both the rumen and the population of rumen bacteria, resulting in a growth and development setback for the calf.

In simple terms, solid feed is an essential component of a baby calf's diet.

hgfarmer, to address your original question, many calf rearers now recommend medium quality hay or barley straw, rather than high quality hay, as this will stimulate the rumen much better. Do not stop giving the calves hay, but dont waste the 3rd cut lucerne on them ;-)

Remember, in calf rearing your objective is not to feed the calf, but to feed and develop the rumen as early as possible, hence allowing that calf to be weaned as early as possible.

 

[hgfarmer]

Keren, now thats the post I was looking for. Now I know what to do! Thanks for the help.

 

[Alice]

When I'd bring those baby holstein bull calves home from the sale I'd put out water, hay, and calf starter grower right off the get go. If they made it past the first 2 weeks of life, I'd rejoice! If they began nibbling on the hay and calf starter grower w/in those first 2 weeks I was reasonably sure they'd make it and concentrated really, really hard on the ones that didn't...

Don't really know anything else other than what I observed.

Alice

 

[Ryder]

Most of the time if you see a baby calf eating hay it is because they dont have anything else to eat or are not getting what they need.

This is my thinking also. If a baby has proper nutrition (milk) they will barley nibble on anything else.

Okay, I'm just going to be blunt here - you are wrong.

When a calf is born, the abomasum is significantly larger than the rumen. An adult bovine has ratios of about 80% rumen, 5% reticulum, 8% omasum and 7% abomasum (% of total stomach volume). But at birth the figures for rumen and abomasum are almost reversed.

This is because of the oesophogeal groove (also known as the reticular groove) which pops up on these boards quite frequently, which ensures that milk goes directly to the abomasum, rather than the rumen where it will

a) be broken down completely giving very little nutrition to the calf, and
b) introduce bacterial into the rumen which ordinarily would not be there - rumen bacteria is ingested when the calf begins to nibble grass, and the population slowly grows and the rumen develops in conjunction with this. By introducing the 'wrong' bacteria, the 'right' bacteria are slower to develop.

By withholding green feed, roughage etc from a calf's diet, you will delay development of both the rumen and the population of rumen bacteria, resulting in a growth and development setback for the calf.

In simple terms, solid feed is an essential component of a baby calf's diet.

hgfarmer, to address your original question, many calf rearers now recommend medium quality hay or barley straw, rather than high quality hay, as this will stimulate the rumen much better. Do not stop giving the calves hay, but dont waste the 3rd cut lucerne on them ;-)

Remember, in calf rearing your objective is not to feed the calf, but to feed and develop the rumen as early as possible, hence allowing that calf to be weaned as early as possible.

Good post Keren.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Keren said exactly what I wanted to - but did not know all the fancy terms. I knew that you needed to "activate" a calfs stomach if you wanted it to grow properly. Great post!!
My calves (on cows) eats hay/balage after about 2 days old - and my cows milk quite well

 

[dun]

Keren said exactly what I wanted to - but did not know all the fancy terms. I knew that you needed to "activate" a calfs stomach if you wanted it to grow properly. Great post!!
My calves (on cows) eats hay/balage after about 2 days old - and my cows milk quite well

My personal belief is that the roughage diet as calves is what helps the mature cow have the capacity to do well on our poor forage.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Keren said exactly what I wanted to - but did not know all the fancy terms. I knew that you needed to "activate" a calfs stomach if you wanted it to grow properly. Great post!!
My calves (on cows) eats hay/balage after about 2 days old - and my cows milk quite well

My personal belief is that the roughage diet as calves is what helps the mature cow have the capacity to do well on our poor forage.

There was actually some research comparing calves grown out on poor quality forage compared to ones on good quality. The ones on good quality had a harder time "maintaining" on poor quality feed source as adults.

 

[grannysoo]

Thanks Karen! Great answer...

 

[msscamp]

Our Longhorn calves are with their mamas from day one in the pasture and hay bale around. Calves do great, no problems. The calf will suck, drink water, nibble on hay or grass as they are learning to mimic adult cattle behavior. They only ingest what they want to and when they want to.

By the way...we don't feed grain to our animals. They have quality mineral tub, salt, and occasional 20% cubes for "training." We do the "natural grass/hay fed" cattle program.

Perhaps you misunderstood the original poster - there is a whole lot of difference between a calf on it's mother as opposed to a bottle baby.

 

[hgfarmer]

Thanks guys for all the help. Theres been some real good posts. Dun, you make a good point. Anyway, im still gonna give hay free choice....

 

[Cormac]

Thanks for this post. I have a calf whose mama died at a month or two of age at a friends place. I felt sorry for her and bought her. She is about 7 months old and about the same height as my calves of the same age but very thin. I have had her for a few months. She has access to hay and I have 14% creep feed available to her free choice. I am still waiting for her to "turn the corner". She also has very loose/wet manure that clings to her tail. I had her BVD tested from the outcome and she was negative. I thought the Creep might be too rich for her so a few weeks ago I took her off the creep only to have her attempt to suck on every cow/calf in the place within a few days. Shouldn't her rumen be ready to roll. Any ideas or what am I missing?

 

[Keren]

Cormac, at 7 months she should be ready for a solid diet, but if she was weaned at 1 - 2 months of age, she may have experienced a developmental setback. And when I say may, its most likely. Calves can be weaned as early as 6 weeks, but the earlier you wean the better your management has to be. If you are early weaning beef calves at 6 - 8 weeks, your management has to be crash hot to ensure that those calves remain viable.

Get the scours under control using electrolytes and probios. Probably wouldnt hurt to worm her if you havent already done so. She needs free choice hay, not too rich though - a good grassy or oaten/wheaten hay, or stalky lucerne (not leafy lucerne). Also, when the scours have stopped, I'd be changing her grain (slowly) over to a calf feed that is 18 - 20% protein. Again ad lib as creep.

Good luck with her.