Hardware?

[ClinchValley86]

Late Fall I brought the pairs home from a leased farm. One of them seems to be considerably thinner than the rest. I've wormed her and am keeping plenty of groceries out for them all. She just doesn't seem to be gaining any condition back. Her calf looks good too. She is a 3 year old. First calf died at 45 days old, so she was in great condition when she calved.

Would you think she's got some metal in her gut? Is it too late for a magnet to have any benefit?

Her backside stays a little dirty too. She acts like she is fine. Head held correctly. No strange body positions. Just isn't looking too hot.

 

[kenny thomas]

At 3 year old a magnet is fine even if thats not the cause.

 

[jltrent]

It sounds like Johne's disease to me.

 

[TCRanch]

All my cows, bulls and retained heifers have magnets. But keep in mind, "hardware" can also be from a shard of glass, PVC pipe, sharp rock, honey locust thorn, etc.

Typical signs of hardware are a runched back, swelling in the brisket & sometimes legs, will often lay down with her head extended for better air flow, temp is initially normal, poo gets hard, she may drool, going off feed. Sometimes it starts with woody tongue.

Have you noticed any lumps or swollen lymph nodes? With a messy backside and nothing else real obvious, you may want to have her tested for BLV. Is her temp normal?

 

[TCRanch]

It sounds like Johne's disease to me.

Another strong possibility. @ClinchValley86 does her poo smell vile?

 

[ClinchValley86]

Another strong possibility. @ClinchValley86 does her poo smell vile?

I'll have to get a better sniff of it.

Is Johnnes contagious to the rest of the animals?

Definitely doesn't sound like hardware then.

Are there any tale-tell signs of johnnes?

 

[TCRanch]

Is Johnnes contagious to the rest of the animals?

Yes

 

[ClinchValley86]

Yes

Well ****! Looks like I'll be getting a vet out here. Thanks.

If the poo is not stanky, would that make ya think it's not johnnes?

 

[TCRanch]

Are there any tale-tell signs of johnnes?

Fortunately, I've never had it in my herd, but my best friend had 2 bulls that tested positive and a number of cows she suspects had it. Theoretically, the entire herd should be tested if one is positive. In the real world, that can be extremely costly (in the long run) and a lot of producers just choose to cull as they go.

The only signs she noticed was perpetual, vile diarrhea and a drastic loss of condition. She tried Sustain boluses, but that was nothing more than a short-term fix.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Fortunately, I've never had it in my herd, but my best friend had 2 bulls that tested positive and a number of cows she suspects had it. Theoretically, the entire herd should be tested if one is positive. In the real world, that can be extremely costly (in the long run) and a lot of producers just choose to cull as they go.

The only signs she noticed was perpetual, vile diarrhea and a drastic loss of condition. She tried Sustain boluses, but that was nothing more than a short-term fix.

Thanks for the information.

 

[kenny thomas]

Well ****! Looks like I'll be getting a vet out here. Thanks.

If the poo is not stanky, would that make ya think it's not johnnes?

Normally yes. But with Johne's the rear is usually very messy. Watery poop. Very noticeable. But also with first or second calf is when i have seen it.
Just put her in the head chute and collect a handful of poop in a rubber glove or sleeve. Turn ot inside out and tie it up. Take it to a vet and save a lot of money.

 

[A.J.]

It would be worth trying a magnet, and while you have her up draw a blood and/or fecal sample to test for Johnes as others have said. With Johnes they typically still have a good appetite and appear to be fine other than watery poop and rapid weight loss no matter what you do. Your vet can send it off and have results back to you in a week or so usually. Hopefully it is something else going on and not that.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Thanks you all.

 

[Logan52]

As a word of encouragement, I once bought a young Red Poll cow that soon showed all the signs of Johnnes. I had the vet out and he confirmed. Got rid of the cow and it never showed up again.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Did you raise her or bought her?
"Generally" they only "catch" it when very young.
Have you ever gotten colostrum from a dairy farm? This was the biggest way beef cattle got exposure.
Rarely shows up until stressed as a 2 yr old calving.
Exposure to calves is through a Johnes animals' feces.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Everyone said it @ClinchValley86
The only thing they didnt say, and I'll say it, is get rid of her!
One cow ain't gonna break ya....

And if she is a Johnny cow, it is contagious.
A disaster waiting to happen.

All that said....
Pictures would be helpful.

 

[Silver]

Usually they develop a 'bottle jaw'. They usually have the biggest appetite of any cow in the herd.
I don't think there is much point in testing the herd. There is no test that reliably detects Johne's disease in asymptomatic animals.
If it is a cow you raised it is probably the tip of the iceberg as something like only 5% show clinical symptoms. If it Johne's I wouldn't sell her.

 

[kenny thomas]

Usually they develop a 'bottle jaw'. They usually have the biggest appetite of any cow in the herd.
I don't think there is much point in testing the herd. There is no test that reliably detects Johne's disease in asymptomatic animals.
If it is a cow you raised it is probably the tip of the iceberg as something like only 5% show clinical symptoms. If it Johne's I wouldn't sell her.

It is safe to sell for slaughter isnt it?

 

[Silver]

It is safe to sell for slaughter isnt it?

Yes.

 

[simme]

@ClinchValley86 Study up a little on the internet about Johne's in cattle. There are progressive stages of the condition. There is a blood test used as a screening tool in the earlier stages. There is also a fecal PCR test that looks for active shedding in the manure in the later stages which means positive. A negative fecal test would occur in an infected animal that has not yet reached the shedding stage, even though the animal is positive. The blood test for screening looks for level of antibodies in the blood. Then there is some interpretation of the numeric score that assigns the results to categories - negative, suspect, low positive, positive, or strong positive. Followup on the screening test to confirm is a fecal test done at a later stage. Point is that Johnes testing is not as simple as other tests.

Even though you have dewormed her, consider doing a fecal egg count to check the level of worms (and effectiveness of the dewormer). There are cows with resistant worms that do not have a good response to dewormer. What product did you use to deworm? Fecal samples should be refrigerated if there is going to be a delay before testing.