Growing out calves to start up?

[bball]

Ya'll are taking this discussion too personal.

I've bought two trailer loads of the 2 to 400 lb calves. Just as the OP was postulating. I only lost 3 of them. Banamine and nuflour saved the rest.

Nurse cows beat all of your suggestions in my opinion. But that's not for someone just getting started.

What works best for me, may not work for him.

SS bred older cows got to be older cows for a reason.

He's pondering how to get in.

I've got a heck of a nice char bull myself. AI product out of Wyoming Wind. Those don't come "for cheap".

Why is everyone assuming money is a limiting factor? Maybe he's way better off financially than many of us were when we started.

He needs a mentor.

There's been good advice given. What's worked for some may not work for someone else. What's his market?

Cattle are like kids, folks get real defensive, real fast. It's a passion for most cattle man I think..gets in your blood. Your advice and observations are spot on mark.

 

[highgrit]

I don't have the cattle knowledge of most of y'all. But I do have a little common sense. Putting a Char bull on Longhorn cows is nothing new. So why aren't longhorn cattle more popular? There cheap for a reason, maybe a couple of reasons. Any calf buyer knows if a calf has longhorn in its blood. Your not going to fool a man at his own game.
Denver Martin Farms, you get more for all your calves, but your a long way from just starting out. This guy needs something easy to handle and easy to sell.

 

[Sniper338]

Weeding through all the "bs" and researching on my own, reading, watching the market reports and everything else ive been doing im fairly sure im going to start with the brangus and hereford breeds...

Im thinking both breeds for some cows, then a hereford bull... that way i can get baldies out of the brangus cow and hereford bull, then get more hereford heifers coming up to help stock, sell the hereford bull calves...

that way i have several different moves i can make by changing out bulls, or borrowing a bull from people i know if i want more brangus calves... Then if the market stays as wanting baldies i can put a brangus homo bull on the hereford cows and get baldie calves, or if the market changes i can breed the hereford cows to something else.... i figure this gives me the best options for my area.


the cattle game is a lot like the stock market... it rises and falls, comodities change, so one stock ends up being better one tanks... thats why mutual funds are popular... spread out the risk... no different than with cattle imo... good to have a few different moves to make..

 

[backhoeboogie]

That's going to put you in the super baldy product sales. You'll get a premium for heifers with ear in my market. You won't take a beating on your steers either. They should market well.

 

[TexasBred]

So CB, what would a half Charolais x longhorn 500lb steer bring there? Like I said here about 2.50$. Sounds like well under 2$ there?

Not a 500 pounder Denver but sold one at 195 lbs. a few weeks ago...brought $5.38. Of course it looked like a Charolais and was a good calf. Old longhorn cow weiged a bit over 900 and proud $1.42. I idea why she sold so well. May be a one time shot as it was the only LH I've ever owned in my life but would certainly buy more if I thought I could do this on a regular basis. Best I remember I gave around $900 for her last summer for $900 short bred.

 

[Sniper338]

That's going to put you in the super baldy product sales. You'll get a premium for heifers with ear in my market. You won't take a beating on your steers either. They should market well.

hopefully... im just saving money right now and looking around to locate places to buy good cattle. That way i know where to go whn i buy a pair or such every few months... im still pondering on buying pairs though because i can keep the cow, sale the calf, and use that to help pay for another pair.... tjen ill end up with cows ready to be bred or already bred, kind of seems like the best jump start.... less waiting more working...

 

[Caustic Burno]

I don't have the cattle knowledge of most of y'all. But I do have a little common sense. Putting a Char bull on Longhorn cows is nothing new. So why aren't longhorn cattle more popular? There cheap for a reason, maybe a couple of reasons. Any calf buyer knows if a calf has longhorn in its blood. Your not going to fool a man at his own game.
Denver Martin Farms, you get more for all your calves, but your a long way from just starting out. This guy needs something easy to handle and easy to sell.

No rookie should start out on LH, Brimmers or salebarn cattle.
LH and Brimmers require different handling facilities or have attitudes that most of the
world doesn't wont to deal with. Salebarn girls are not for rookies, good way to loose money fast
if you don't know what you are doing.

 

[B&M Farms]

Sounds like it won't work in Texas, but this is how longhorns work here.

You can buy a good young heavy bred longhorn for about 1000$ she will eat a little less than other cows and have a calf every year, that calf at 500lbs will bring 2.50$ or 1250$ and you paid 1000$ for that cow.

Or you can buy the same quality heavy bred black cow for 2500$, her 500lb calf will bring 3.00$ or 1500$ and you paid 2500$ for that cow. So that's 5 years before the black cow made you extra money.

With that said I don't have but a few longhorns, alot of my cows are somewhere between 1000$ longhorns and 2500$ blacks.

Now I completely understand this wont work in many places, just saying how it is here.

If it even looks like a LH cross a 500lb calf won't bring more than $750 here. I know you can hide it on some but that LH will show on a lot of them.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Ya'll are taking this discussion too personal.

I've bought two trailer loads of the 2 to 400 lb calves. Just as the OP was postulating. I only lost 3 of them. Banamine and nuflour saved the rest.

Nurse cows beat all of your suggestions in my opinion. But that's not for someone just getting started.

What works best for me, may not work for him.

SS bred older cows got to be older cows for a reason.

He's pondering how to get in.

I've got a heck of a nice char bull myself. AI product out of Wyoming Wind. Those don't come "for cheap".

Why is everyone assuming money is a limiting factor? Maybe he's way better off financially than many of us were when we started.

He needs a mentor.

There's been good advice given. What's worked for some may not work for someone else. What's his market?

Cattle are like kids, folks get real defensive, real fast. It's a passion for most cattle man I think..gets in your blood. Your advice and observations are spot on mark.

See that is were we disagree. There are two breeds of cattle those that put money in your pocket or the other guys.
I love Brimmer and Brimmer cross cows I would never recommend them to a rookie or someone up north.
Same goes for salebarn girls and I haul them in every spring and ship them every fall.
Be a lot of train wrecks in the learning curve.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Sounds like it won't work in Texas, but this is how longhorns work here.

You can buy a good young heavy bred longhorn for about 1000$ she will eat a little less than other cows and have a calf every year, that calf at 500lbs will bring 2.50$ or 1250$ and you paid 1000$ for that cow.

Or you can buy the same quality heavy bred black cow for 2500$, her 500lb calf will bring 3.00$ or 1500$ and you paid 2500$ for that cow. So that's 5 years before the black cow made you extra money.

With that said I don't have but a few longhorns, alot of my cows are somewhere between 1000$ longhorns and 2500$ blacks.

Now I completely understand this wont work in many places, just saying how it is here.

If it even looks like a LH cross a 500lb calf won't bring more than $750 here. I know you can hide it on some but that LH will show on a lot of them.

Same here another screwy thing is you will take a hit on a Hereford cow as well here.
They will fight over a Braford to haul her back to the farm.
These two girls are half sisters and both a 1/4 Brimmer the front one would bring a premium through the barn
and her sister would take a hit because she has more Hereford Characteristics.
They will both eat out of your hand the Hereford one will eat you alive if you stop leading and start pushing.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Be a lot of train wrecks in the learning curve.

Luck. Good and bad too. After you spit out the turd, the taste lingers on. It'll make you appreciate something sweet.

 

[Jessica06]

The Jordan replacement sale in San Saba is next weekend. Even if you don't buy, you'd probably learn a lot just sitting and watching.

 

[Jessica06]

Weeding through all the "bs" and researching on my own, reading, watching the market reports and everything else ive been doing im fairly sure im going to start with the brangus and hereford breeds...

Im thinking both breeds for some cows, then a hereford bull... that way i can get baldies out of the brangus cow and hereford bull, then get more hereford heifers coming up to help stock, sell the hereford bull calves...

that way i have several different moves i can make by changing out bulls, or borrowing a bull from people i know if i want more brangus calves... Then if the market stays as wanting baldies i can put a brangus homo bull on the hereford cows and get baldie calves, or if the market changes i can breed the hereford cows to something else.... i figure this gives me the best options for my area.


the cattle game is a lot like the stock market... it rises and falls, comodities change, so one stock ends up being better one tanks... thats why mutual funds are popular... spread out the risk... no different than with cattle imo... good to have a few different moves to make..

I think you're making a good choice, but I would go one way or the other, not both. Hereford calves take a pretty good hit, but the black baldies will never go out of style. If you go with Hereford cows, you'll be stuck using Angus/Brangus bulls. If you choose Brangus, you could go with Hereford or Black bulls. We have over 150 Brangus cows, commercial and registered, and have been straight Brangus since we started. We bought our first Hereford bulls last year, and are pretty excited about it. Good baldy steers sell better here than solid black or smoky. And waaaay better than LH crosses. Big Cheese is right about getting into them cheap...you can't hardly give them away around here.

 

[bball]

Ya'll are taking this discussion too personal.

I've bought two trailer loads of the 2 to 400 lb calves. Just as the OP was postulating. I only lost 3 of them. Banamine and nuflour saved the rest.

Nurse cows beat all of your suggestions in my opinion. But that's not for someone just getting started.

What works best for me, may not work for him.

SS bred older cows got to be older cows for a reason.

He's pondering how to get in.

I've got a heck of a nice char bull myself. AI product out of Wyoming Wind. Those don't come "for cheap".

Why is everyone assuming money is a limiting factor? Maybe he's way better off financially than many of us were when we started.

He needs a mentor.

There's been good advice given. What's worked for some may not work for someone else. What's his market?

Cattle are like kids, folks get real defensive, real fast. It's a passion for most cattle man I think..gets in your blood. Your advice and observations are spot on mark.

See that is were we disagree. There are two breeds of cattle those that put money in your pocket or the other guys.
I love Brimmer and Brimmer cross cows I would never recommend them to a rookie or someone up north.
Same goes for salebarn girls and I haul them in every spring and ship them every fall.
Be a lot of train wrecks in the learning curve.

Just like there are two types of people....those that have to touch the stove to learn it's hot,....and those that can watch someone else touch the stove to learn it's hot!

Not quite certain where we disagree? I totally understand what your saying about black cattle...if it ain't black here, you are going to get docked.. period. Which is also why I'm not arguing about it with anyone. I offered my two cents and moved on. I also think boogie offered some very solid advice/observations. hence my comment. CB, I completely appreciate your input on the topic and mostly agree
with what you posted. At the end of the day sniper has to make up his mind...and it sounds like he has (made a good decision too I think).

 

[Big Cheese]

Sounds like it won't work in Texas, but this is how longhorns work here.

You can buy a good young heavy bred longhorn for about 1000$ she will eat a little less than other cows and have a calf every year, that calf at 500lbs will bring 2.50$ or 1250$ and you paid 1000$ for that cow.

Or you can buy the same quality heavy bred black cow for 2500$, her 500lb calf will bring 3.00$ or 1500$ and you paid 2500$ for that cow. So that's 5 years before the black cow made you extra money.

With that said I don't have but a few longhorns, alot of my cows are somewhere between 1000$ longhorns and 2500$ blacks.

Now I completely understand this wont work in many places, just saying how it is here.

That's how it is here as well Denver except the black cows are $3000 or more. Our Charolais Longhorn cross calves are all yellow except for two that have some chrome with their yellow. CB is to worried about how Longhorns used to be and his logic would work great about 10 years ago but it's different now and he can't realize that. A lot of people in my area is doing the Charolais Bulls on Longhorns and it is working for everyone. One old farmer has been doing it for 20 years so...it works...

 

[Big Cheese]

I've got a heck of a nice char bull myself. AI product out of Wyoming Wind. Those don't come "for cheap".

We've got a grandson of Wyoming Wind. We also have a son of Mr President as well. We love both Bulls and they are doing great on our Longhorns and few beef cows.

 

[Ojp6]

It's been several months since I've seen a 4-500 lb LH cross calf that is solid yellow,gray, or black get docked under 2.00 a lb at any sale I've been at. Now I can't say they would be that good everywhere. Last week I saw four 510 lb charxLH heifer calves sell. Two grays with less that 2 inch horns, a yellow and white calf, and a polled yellow calf. They brought 2.15 but they were a little nicer looking then a lot of crosses.


That being said I guess the strategy I would use completely depends on how much grass you have compared to how much money you have. If you have grass for 10 hd and you have $25,000 your strategy should be a lot different than if you have grass for 50 hd and $25,000. If you got more grass than you have money I would say buy something that is a little thinner and can grow on the extra grass that costs a little less because of you have plenty of grass and not enough money you need to get as many calves on the ground as you can. If you have extra grass you might as well put something on it that it really is going to help. On the other hand if you have the money to fill your pasture with good young cows for 2500-3000 that you can get somewhere other than the salebarns that would be the best way to get started with the fewest problems. It would also provide you with a herd that you will want to keep for years to come rather than a herd of cheap oddballs.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Sounds like it won't work in Texas, but this is how longhorns work here.

You can buy a good young heavy bred longhorn for about 1000$ she will eat a little less than other cows and have a calf every year, that calf at 500lbs will bring 2.50$ or 1250$ and you paid 1000$ for that cow.

Or you can buy the same quality heavy bred black cow for 2500$, her 500lb calf will bring 3.00$ or 1500$ and you paid 2500$ for that cow. So that's 5 years before the black cow made you extra money.

With that said I don't have but a few longhorns, alot of my cows are somewhere between 1000$ longhorns and 2500$ blacks.

Now I completely understand this wont work in many places, just saying how it is here.

That's how it is here as well Denver except the black cows are $3000 or more. Our Charolais Longhorn cross calves are all yellow except for two that have some chrome with their yellow. CB is to worried about how Longhorns used to be and his logic would work great about 10 years ago but it's different now and he can't realize that. A lot of people in my area is doing the Charolais Bulls on Longhorns and it is working for everyone. One old farmer has been doing it for 20 years so...it works...

Big Cheese I think where you got confused is because something works there doesn't mean it does here.
I and several others from here tried to tell you. Secondly because it works doesn't make it anywhere close to
being the best choice. A Ford 8N works it is not worth a piece of dried up monkey shyt but it was the best we had in the day.
Actually I am not worried about how LH used to be or will ever be.
The more producers that raise subpar cattle are just putting more money in the pockets of us who actually raise cattle that will
grade out with more pounds in less time. I love it when I walk in the barn and the order buyers want to know if I hauled my
calves in and want my ticket numbers and I walk out getting top dollar that day .
You got your feelings hurt and had to push an agenda.

Mine was to try and help a young man that from his post was starting out at A and had a long way to go to get to Z
Ricebelt gave the young man some excellent advice along with Texas Paw Paw as others from HERE telling him to steer
clear of breeds he will get docked and skinned on at our salebarns.

Did this young man have some better choices than I suggested you bet he did. Being the internet and from reading a post
his experience level didn't warrant those at this time. That is were I disagree for him on any Brahman influenced cattle.
They bring on a different set of challenges.
This young man starting out could have made premium price per pound on easy working cattle giving him a chance
to attend some Beef and Forage workshops while learning about the industry and the direction that would be best for his area.


It is way more than just a salebarn check. Until you know the true input cost to your operation and what it cost you
to keep a cow in the pasture a day you have no clue what you are profiting or if you have welfare cattle.
If you want to run X breed and support them because it is what you like and know you are supporting them versus
supporting themselves more power to you.
He was nowhere close to being ready for that conversation. Till he learns these true cost he has very little chance
of making money off his cattle or owning and supporting some or just quitting. The current cycle prices look great until
you put a pencil to all the input cost. His input cost are going to be through the roof for a while getting his infrastructure in place and learning. The current cycle is good. This cycle will bust as well, as this is a commodity of cycles and has been from day one.

There will be some try and tell him on here how he can write off a 40K tractor and he can.
Until he understands that 40k is being deducted off his 100K income over several years and he
saved a few dollars that year and if he is lucky drops a bracket in the code he spent a dollar to save a dime.
This is a great deal for the government until he truly understands buying things for a write off is a losers game.
If you need a new piece of equipment it is a good deal. Spending 40k to save pennies on a 1040
puts a hole in the bank account doesn't build it.

 

[Hook]

Cb, how many head did your sale barn run through last week?
It matters in a situation like yours

 

[Caustic Burno]

Cb, how many head did your sale barn run through last week?
It matters in a situation like yours

967 little over 300 at the other and that is low as a lot of people still can not get in to their pens.

Average at Crockett is 1500 to 2000 a week.
Livingston usually around 500.
I didn't check Nacogdoches
Just looked them up 467 through that barn.
Crockett is on Tuesday
Nacogdoches Thursday
Livingston Saturaday