Growing out calves to start up?

[Caustic Burno]

Maybe 5 months.

 

[greybeard]

That IS a long time to wait. If it was just 'waiting' it would be ok I guess, considering 'someone' has to raise them anyway, but there's daily cost involved no matter what. The hard part is getting someone else to pay that daily cost a few more months, and hope those costs don't carry over when ya go to buy older ones. Lots of difference between 13-14 month breed age heifer and 18 months.

 

[Big Cheese]

Depending on where you are LH will hurt you at the salebarn.
Buyers will dock you for calves with chrome.
Why start out in the hole and try to dig out.
Here it better be black or a black baldie to draw premium money.
I say find some good Hereford cows as they sell cheaper and put a good
black homo bull on them, sit back as the draw premium money mashing the scales down.

Again this is simple you want black and heavy calf in the least amount of time.
You can fight it and it absolutely makes no sense as when the hide comes off they are all the same color.
If you choose to fight what the order buyers want you are just giving away money.

Grass in front of the cow bull behind.

You won't start out in the hole CB. You pay $1000 for a heavy bred Longhorn cow bred to a beef bull you'll get $1000 for that calf and the cows is then paid for everything else from then on is profit. I would much rather pay $1000 to start off then $3000. He can always upgrade later if he feels the need too. You can make money off Longhorns I promise you.

Plus you can run 3 Longhorns to 2 beef cows. That's more head which equals more calves. Just saying.

You fell and hit your head an need an aspirin.
They will skin him alive on LH cattle recipe for failure in this part of the world.
More head doesn't equal more pounds on the scales. Hard to put beef on hatchet be nice cattle.
If they were that good the buyers would drive the market to the breed not dock it.

Fell and hit my head? I'm pretty sure we have had this conversation on a different thread already. You're also the same person that said he would never have a black cow on his place because there's not any options with them...Haha! We have a pasture where it would be full with 35 beef cows....we have 50 cows on it now...a mixture of Longhorns and beef cows I think it's 20 beef cows and 30 Longhorns and it hasn't missed a beat. We will be weeding out a few beefs at the end of the summer as well and adding some half breeds to the mix. I'll take 15 more calves every year in a heartbeat...getting docked or not...and also turning my money over faster then most people. Oh and by the way only 11 of our calves out of 51 have come out with chrome this year and 4 of those were full blood Longhorns so only 7 of the half breeds were marked up....only 2 out of our Charolais Bulls have been marked up. That's about 20% which sounds pretty good to me in my opinion. So you can talk bad about Longhorns all you want but it's a great way to get started in the cow business and a lot of people are starting to realize that.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You can push LH all you want.
Cattlemen have been running from hide and horns for the last 150 years for beef
because the order buyers don't want them.

Again if order buyers wanted them the salebarn would be full of them just like the
black cattle running through every week.
.

 

[B&M Farms]

A LH is a good waste of grass. If you want to raise funnel butted sub par cows, by all means get you some.

 

[Caustic Burno]

A LH is a good waste of grass. If you want to raise funnel butted sub par cows, by all means get you some.

You hit the nail on the head.
The one and only constant I have seen for nearly the last 50 years is the black baldie calf
has been the premium through all the colors that have come and gone.
If I could run Brahman cows and a Hereford bull and make the same on the calves I would.
The premium you get on the heifers is lost in giving the steer calves away.
We sell a commodity at wholesale and buy everything at retail to stay in this for the long haul
we have to give the buyer what he wants not what we want.

 

[Big Cheese]

I never said the half breeds we raise are going to bring more then your black baldy calves. Black Baldies bring a lot around here as well. The point is you get in them cheaper so you turn over your money faster and you can run more head. More calves are always better and they also eat less and are easier to take care of. I'm a hard headed guy I'll admit that but I will listen when other people tell me things about cattle and try and gain knowledge from it. You are so hard headed you won't listen to anything anybody has to say and the bad thing is I knew it before I got into this argument from the last time I argued with you so I blame this on myself.

B&M....we are breeding our Longhorns to Charolais Bulls it takes a lot of that leanness out and puts more muscle mass on them and I promise you our cattle arent sub par. They raise great calves.

 

[greybeard]

You can push LH all you want.
Cattlemen have been running from hide and horns for the last 150 years for beef
because the order buyers don't want them.

Again if order buyers wanted them the salebarn would be full of them just like the
black cattle running through every week.
.

That's why I'm looking for a red Brangus bull--I just can't buy in to that black hide fever that really took off back in the late 2000s.

 

[wacocowboy]

Buy some old bred cows stay away from calves. This is not the best time to start out a 400lb calf in Texas. The summers can get dry and hot, and then not much grass for the calves to gain on, then you got to buy feed and that cuts in your profits. If you want calves plant oats and ryegrass in Sept./Oct. and put them in there about Nov. and watch them grow. They will still try to die on you though. I know a lot a guys who say all feeder calves do is eat, crap and look for ways to get sick and die. The sale barn is not the boogie man everyone makes it out to be yes it is buy at your own risk, but if you have a fair amount of knowledge you can cut some of that risk. I have bought lots of animals out of sale barn some went right back, some stayed for awhile, and some stayed for a long time. You learn by doing so go watch the sale sit on your hands and watch ask a few of the old timers questions when you think you got it figured out raise your hand and put in a bid. I learned to buy cattle when I was ten years old sitting with my Grandfather, Dad and order buyers. When they thought I knew what I was doing they gave me a card and said go at it. Yes I made a few mistakes, but I learned and moved on and have done pretty good. In my opinion it is better to learn to do it yourself than to let someone else buy your cattle.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I never said the half breeds we raise are going to bring more then your black baldy calves. Black Baldies bring a lot around here as well. The point is you get in them cheaper so you turn over your money faster and you can run more head. More calves are always better and they also eat less and are easier to take care of. I'm a hard headed guy I'll admit that but I will listen when other people tell me things about cattle and try and gain knowledge from it. You are so hard headed you won't listen to anything anybody has to say and the bad thing is I knew it before I got into this argument from the last time I argued with you so I blame this on myself.

B&M....we are breeding our Longhorns to Charolais Bulls it takes a lot of that leanness out and puts more muscle mass on them and I promise you our cattle arent sub par. They raise great calves.

I am not being hard headed I see you giving the worst advice possible to someone in Texas trying to start out.
He is going to have enough problems on his own for a few years. So why would you want him to start out with
the worst breed here for making money. I haul cattle for people and sit through many an auction at best case
they are considered a pasture ornament.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You can push LH all you want.
Cattlemen have been running from hide and horns for the last 150 years for beef
because the order buyers don't want them.

Again if order buyers wanted them the salebarn would be full of them just like the
black cattle running through every week.
.

That's why I'm looking for a red Brangus bull--I just can't buy in to that black hide fever that really took off back in the late 2000s.

Black calves took off a decade before that and have been gaining steam ever since.
Perception is reality the Angus Association out played every other one.
The proof is in the salebarn and almost every breed association offering a black variation of something that doesn't exist
without Angus genetics being infused to get a black hide.
You are just giving away dollars at least twenty to thirty dollars a hundred weight. I would agree with on Brangus just black. Now if you were wanting to raise heifers to sell private treaty Brangus, Beefmaster Braford or Brahman are money makers as you well know here.The steer calves can leave a mark on some of them that you wont like. A terminal calf operation a black will be on top with yellow baldie coming in a close second from there on they just go down.
I am not an Angus fan and I own an Angus bull. Whatever we think the Angus Association has out
performed all the others. I didn't say the breed the Association has.
It just doesn't pay to fight what the buyers want.
The one thing I have learned after nearly a half century of the ups and downs is haul what the buyer want's
or raise welfare cattle

If your heart is set on Red Brangus there is breeder about six miles north of me GB.

 

[greybeard]

There's lots of things people can give away---their name, money, principle, ethics, integrity -- with money, being the least important of all of those.

 

[Big Cheese]

I never said the half breeds we raise are going to bring more then your black baldy calves. Black Baldies bring a lot around here as well. The point is you get in them cheaper so you turn over your money faster and you can run more head. More calves are always better and they also eat less and are easier to take care of. I'm a hard headed guy I'll admit that but I will listen when other people tell me things about cattle and try and gain knowledge from it. You are so hard headed you won't listen to anything anybody has to say and the bad thing is I knew it before I got into this argument from the last time I argued with you so I blame this on myself.

B&M....we are breeding our Longhorns to Charolais Bulls it takes a lot of that leanness out and puts more muscle mass on them and I promise you our cattle arent sub par. They raise great calves.

I am not being hard headed I see you giving the worst advice possible to someone in Texas trying to start out.
He is going to have enough problems on his own for a few years. So why would you want him to start out with
the worst breed here for making money. I haul cattle for people and sit through many an auction at best case
they are considered a pasture ornament.

Because they are easy to take care of and can survive on almost anything and you can get in them for cheap. I promise you he can start out with some Longhorns and be just fine. No matter if he is in Texas or not. They are called TEXAS Longhorns so they thrive in y'all's environment. If he is going to have problems and make mistakes I think he would be happier making a $1000 mistake compared to a $3000 mistake to start out.

You can listen to CB all you want Sniper but he is stuck in his own way and thinks everybody else's way is trash. I'm not pushing Longhorns on you and it wouldn't bother me one bit if you said you didn't want to fool with them but don't let CBs narrow mindedness talk you out of them. If your wanting to get into the cow business you go out and get you some good heavy bred cows regardless of the breed and let them out and start taking care of them. Then once you learn the ropes you can start getting the breed that you want and start replacing. That is why I keep mentioning Longhorns because they are cheap to get into and will make you money faster early on while you learn the ropes. They will help you learn what you need to learn. Good luck to you I'm done wasting my time arguing with that guy on here.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Sounds like it won't work in Texas, but this is how longhorns work here.

You can buy a good young heavy bred longhorn for about 1000$ she will eat a little less than other cows and have a calf every year, that calf at 500lbs will bring 2.50$ or 1250$ and you paid 1000$ for that cow.

Or you can buy the same quality heavy bred black cow for 2500$, her 500lb calf will bring 3.00$ or 1500$ and you paid 2500$ for that cow. So that's 5 years before the black cow made you extra money.

With that said I don't have but a few longhorns, alot of my cows are somewhere between 1000$ longhorns and 2500$ blacks.

Now I completely understand this wont work in many places, just saying how it is here.

 

[Caustic Burno]

No Cheese I just think your way is.
The last thing a rookie needs is sub par cattle and the problems that go with handling them.
The salebarn hates them he will get bottom prices on his calves no matter what bull he uses.
So he buys cattle no one in this part of the world wants and you think that is a good place for a beginner.
Much less his cattle becoming the butt of every joke at the barn. Man that is a confidence builder right there.
When you are sitting in the barn and hear people saying I wonder who hauled that crap in.
It is about pounds on the scales and pounds gained in the feedlot. I sit with order buyers and those calves
are chipped when bought. They know how many days and how many pounds that calf put on over time in the lot.
They can not compete with beef cattle in a feedlot and will be heavily discounted from now on.

I love gray Brimmers and they can survive on barb wire and briers and raise a calf.
It would be one breed ahead of a LH I would advice a Rookie not to start with.
I have some F-1 Tigers and that be the last absolute thing I would tell him to buy.

The difference is you pushing an agenda not help.

.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

So CB, what would a half Charolais x longhorn 500lb steer bring there? Like I said here about 2.50$. Sounds like well under 2$ there?

 

[backhoeboogie]

Ya'll are taking this discussion too personal.

I've bought two trailer loads of the 2 to 400 lb calves. Just as the OP was postulating. I only lost 3 of them. Banamine and nuflour saved the rest.

Nurse cows beat all of your suggestions in my opinion. But that's not for someone just getting started.

What works best for me, may not work for him.

SS bred older cows got to be older cows for a reason.

He's pondering how to get in.

I've got a heck of a nice char bull myself. AI product out of Wyoming Wind. Those don't come "for cheap".

Why is everyone assuming money is a limiting factor? Maybe he's way better off financially than many of us were when we started.

He needs a mentor.

There's been good advice given. What's worked for some may not work for someone else. What's his market?

 

[backhoeboogie]

So CB, what would a half Charolais x longhorn 500lb steer bring there? Like I said here about 2.50$. Sounds like well under 2$ there?

Char X Brangus are at the top end of the market here, in the sale barn.

 

[Caustic Burno]

So CB, what would a half Charolais x longhorn 500lb steer bring there? Like I said here about 2.50$. Sounds like well under 2$ there?

He would be under 2.00 seen some LH cows and cross calves someone was dumping last week. Just a few pair came through someone was selling out moving back to Houston. They were good looking cows for LH the got canner price and were headed for dog food.Those calves brought a 1.80 couple brought a little over two when the beef counterparts were bringing up to 3.60
The auctioneer tried his best to sell them as pairs the back to farm boys wouldn't touch them.
The cows brought a little over a dollar a pound. Very few come through the barn here anymore.
I actually seen more Belted Galloway's last week man did those take a pounding. I have no clue where they came from
somebody ran 10 or 12 through the barn.
The order buyers here don't want anything with horns no matter the breed it will be discounted
over the polled calves.

Last weeks price be sure to read the disclaimer as those prices are not posted.
http://www.easttexaslivestock.com/market-report/

 

[Sniper338]

Ya'll are taking this discussion too personal.

He's pondering how to get in.

Why is everyone assuming money is a limiting factor? Maybe he's way better off financially than many of us were when we started.

He needs a mentor.

There's been good advice given. What's worked for some may not work for someone else. What's his market?

thank you.