GMO grains in cattle feed.

[Bigfoot]

Allforage,

I'll agree, in many underdeveloped countries. Getting the food actually in the stomach of the needy is a problem.

 

[ibetyamissedme]

I think many of you are confusing GMO's with hybrids. GMO corn has only been used since the mid 90's.

I'd like for you to explain to me how hybrid seed corn can be produced without direct human gene modification.

 

[dbr25]

I think many of you are confusing GMO's with hybrids. GMO corn has only been used since the mid 90's.

I'd like for you to explain to me how hybrid seed corn can be produced without direct human gene modification.

There's no way I could even start to explain that. I'm a grass farmer, I have no idea how hybridization or genetically engineered/ modified or whatever you want to call it works. I do know that hybrids have been around a long, long time. I can however provide links and you can read up on the topic yourself. A few simple google searches took less time than to type this post.
* Hybrid corn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuPont_Pioneer
"1924 Henry Wallace begins selling 'Copper Cross', the first commercial hybrid seed corn."

*History of gm food: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneticall ... od#History
"In the US in 1995, the following transgenic crops received marketing approval: canola with modified oil composition (Calgene), Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) corn/maize (Ciba-Geigy), cotton resistant to the herbicide bromoxynil (Calgene), Bt cotton (Monsanto), Bt potatoes (Monsanto), soybeans resistant to the herbicide glyphosate (Monsanto), virus-resistant squash (Monsanto-Asgrow), and additional delayed ripening tomatoes (DNAP, Zeneca/Peto, and Monsanto)."

*Seed company in IN selling non gmo hybrid corn: http://www.spectrumseed.com/non-gmo-corn-hybrids-2015

 

[ibetyamissedme]

I think many of you are confusing GMO's with hybrids. GMO corn has only been used since the mid 90's.

I'd like for you to explain to me how hybrid seed corn can be produced without direct human gene modification.

There's no way I could even start to explain that. I'm a grass farmer, I have no idea how hybridization or genetically engineered/ modified or whatever you want to call it works. I do know that hybrids have been around a long, long time. I can however provide links and you can read up on the topic yourself. A few simple google searches took less time than to type this

I raise hybrid seed corn I understand it very well, without direct human genetic modification a hybrid cannot exist. Hybrids are thus genetically modified.

 

[dbr25]

Again....we or "the world" will not be able to continue to feed itself without the GMO products.

You stated this as if it were a fact, when it is your opinion.What makes you so sure? It is my opinion that we can produce more than we currently are, without gmo's. See my post about Gabe Brown. http://www.brownsranch.us/ Again, he is no where near the only one doing these things, its just there are a lot of articles and videos about him. And before anyone starts saying he's just speaking about this stuff to make a lot of money at conferences or sell books( he hasn't written any yet), he does all his speaking for free, only asks for travel expenses to be paid. He really is trying to show folks what he has learned for the benefit of other farmers. Here is a really good video of some farmers that visited Gabe and came back to NC and started using cover crops and saw results in the first year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWXCLVCJWTU

 

[dbr25]

I raise hybrid seed corn I understand it very well, without direct human genetic modification a hybrid cannot exist. Hybrids are thus genetically modified.

I was under the impression the term hybrid, whether talking about plants or animals, was a cross breeding between two or more pure breeds. Mixing of the gene pools. I have hybrid hogs, red wattle/large black sows bred by a hereford boar, but they will still have the same traits as their parents. None have been removed. I have mixed up their offspring's genes just by putting them near one another. I did not "modify or engineer" their genes in any way(certainly not in a lab), but yes there was some human intervention. I had to make sure they are in the same area. Real high tech stuff.

But lets keep it simple, the hybrids prior to the mid 90's could not withstand an application of glyphosate, then they could. Something happened, really fast. What was it?

 

[Nesikep]

Hybrids exist in nature too.. some of them will end up as dead ends (mules), but there are birds around here that are (for example) green, and as you go east, they are blue.. In between you do see hybrids that are a blue-green. GE, or GMO, or transgenic, or whatever else the bloody correct name for it is takes genes from another (entirely different) organism, and implants it into another. In nature, there is no way a fish is going to f*ck a tomato, there's no way a goat will screw a spider either (both of these have been done in labs)

wild varieties were created by natural selection (darwin)
traditional varieties were created by selective breeding...
Hybrids are Planned breeding
GE or whatever is impossible under natural circumstances

 

[ibetyamissedme]

I was under the impression the term hybrid, whether talking about plants or animals, was a cross breeding between two or more pure breeds. Mixing of the gene pools. I have hybrid hogs, red wattle/large black sows bred by a hereford boar, but they will still have the same traits as their parents. None have been removed.

Here what you have is a simple cross breed nothing more, as you have clearly stated same genes as thier parents nothing has been removed. Unlike a hybrid where in fact certain parent genes are removed. Cross breeds and hybrids are not the same. You have cross bred hogs.

 

[ibetyamissedme]

Hybrids exist in nature too.. some of them will end up as dead ends (mules)

These hybrid mules you speak of, what and how were the parent genes removed?

 

[TexasBred]

Again....we or "the world" will not be able to continue to feed itself without the GMO products.

You stated this as if it were a fact, when it is your opinion.What makes you so sure? It is my opinion that we can produce more than we currently are, without gmo's. See my post about Gabe Brown. http://www.brownsranch.us/ Again, he is no where near the only one doing these things, its just there are a lot of articles and videos about him. And before anyone starts saying he's just speaking about this stuff to make a lot of money at conferences or sell books( he hasn't written any yet), he does all his speaking for free, only asks for travel expenses to be paid. He really is trying to show folks what he has learned for the benefit of other farmers. Here is a really good video of some farmers that visited Gabe and came back to NC and started using cover crops and saw results in the first year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWXCLVCJWTU

I may have overlooked it but how many people does his farm feed?? What are some of his per acre production numbers on the various crops ??

 

[nkotb]

I don't have a dog in this fight but,

I hate the chip on the shoulder cr@p about feeding the world. Who says we are responsible?

Talk to a small seed company guy once about Monsanto. If you agree to sell their stuff they get full access to your books. Mainly to track who is purchasing. They have been harassing seed cleaners for years. It all gets back to the Supreme Court case where plant life was allowed to be patented. Watch out because folks are working to get animal life patented As well.

I realize their is some unwarranted histeria, but there are real stories worldwide that have been terrible.

This is our food supply. They or anyone interested in profit will go as far as needed. Just like we all have a healthy dis-trust for our government, so should you be wary of anyone like Monsanto.

Just my thoughts

It's not Monsanto's doing that you have to track who is planting, that is a government requirement, regardless of seed company. I sell seed, Monsanto brands and otherwise, and we have to do it for every company and every crop, milo (grain sorghum), and forages included. No GMO/GE in the milo or forage sorghum/sorghumXsudan forages, but that's what is required. The reason Monsanto receives all the crap for having patents on their seeds is completely unfounded. If you spent millions on research to develop a specific product, would you want any Joe Blow off the streets to be able to just take your product and sell it at a lower price as he did none of the research? It's the same with specific hybrids and traits. These companies spend very large amounts of money developing these products and getting them through the government red-tape, of course they can't afford to have you saving seed or for any Joe Blow be able to sell them for nothing, because he has no expense in them.

 

[Nesikep]

nkotb, I actually don't mind plant gene patents.. but in my situation, if I don't want their genes in my crops, then they should also be liable for it.. The justice system is giving them a carrot with no stick, and it's costing others... In the Percy Schmieser case, I don't have all that much sympathy, because he did at one time plant Monsanto products.

 

[Nesikep]

Oh, and in a hybrid, there are no genes removed. A hybrid is usually desirable because of better vigor, and as someone said, it's a cross of 2 purebred breeds.. That means you get predictability. In a case of where parent 1 has some gene aaBBcc, and parent 2 has AAbbCC, the offspring will invariably have AaBbCc.. Once you have the F2 cross you just have something that has no predictability

 

[ibetyamissedme]

Oh, and in a hybrid, there are no genes removed. A hybrid is usually desirable because of better vigor, and as someone said, it's a cross of 2 purebred breeds.. That means you get predictability. In a case of where parent 1 has some gene aaBBcc, and parent 2 has AAbbCC, the offspring will invariably have AaBbCc.. Once you have the F2 cross you just have something that has no predictability

you need to read up on hybrid seed corn you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[dbr25]

Cross breeds and hybrids are not the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid "Hybrid (biology), an offspring resulting from cross-breeding"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_(biology)"In biology a hybrid is an offspring of two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species, or genera."

Either you are wrong, or wikipedia is. We need to move on. GMO's, or GE crops etc. are not the same as hybrids. This is a fact, not an opinion. I can, with my high school education, produce hybrid plants and hybrid animals on my farm. Just need some seeds and bags for corn, and different breeds for animals. I cannot, however, splice genes in corn, soybeans, cotton etc., to be resistant to poison I might want to spray on it, or to produce a bacteria to get rid of bugs. This is accomplished in a lab somewhere by I can only guess who. Certainly not a dirt- under- fingernails, overalls- wearing, manure- on- boots farmer.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Oh, internet experts, where would we be without you? A simple search and you instantly transform from a grass farmer, to a expert in crop hybridization, and genetics.
:banana:

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Cross breeds and hybrids are not the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid "Hybrid (biology), an offspring resulting from cross-breeding"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_(biology)"In biology a hybrid is an offspring of two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species, or genera."

Either you are wrong, or wikipedia is. We need to move on. GMO's, or GE crops etc. are not the same as hybrids. This is a fact, not an opinion. I can, with my high school education, produce hybrid plants and hybrid animals on my farm. Just need some seeds and bags for corn, and different breeds for animals. I cannot, however, splice genes in corn, soybeans, cotton etc., to be resistant to poison I might want to spray on it,or to produce a bacteria to get rid of bugs. This is accomplished in a lab somewhere by I can only guess who. Certainly not a dirt- under- fingernails, overalls- wearing, manure- on- boots farmer.

Actually you can through mutation. Take a thousand plants, spray them with small doses of your desired herbicide, "poison" as you call it. What ever plants survive, collect their seeds, and do it again next year. After a while you will have resistant plants.

Just get do to the point, you really don't care about the science, you just care about your opinion, and agenda (or it could be someone else's opinion since you like to believe anything off the internet).

 

[Nesikep]

dbr is right in what he says, he cannot splice genes in.
He could however put darwinistic selective pressure in his breeding process (of whatever it is, such as herbicide tolerance) in which case, which is what Sim-ang-king is talking about.. that is not GE, GMO, or whatever.

 

[dbr25]

I may have overlooked it but how many people does his farm feed?? What are some of his per acre production numbers on the various crops ??

Your guess is as good as mine on the first question. He says 30% above the county average on the other. Lives in a 15" rainfall climate so not huge numbers per acre. Look at Dave Brandt in Ohio for bigger numbers, like over 200 bushel corn and 65-70 bushel soybean.

 

[ibetyamissedme]

Dbr25 maybe you should not get your information from Wikipedia. Come out to the real world I can teach you.