GMO grains in cattle feed.

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Nesikep":2m1haw88 said:
Oh, and in a hybrid, there are no genes removed. A hybrid is usually desirable because of better vigor, and as someone said, it's a cross of 2 purebred breeds.. That means you get predictability. In a case of where parent 1 has some gene aaBBcc, and parent 2 has AAbbCC, the offspring will invariably have AaBbCc.. Once you have the F2 cross you just have something that has no predictability
What do you mean in a hybrid no genes are removed? Two entire parents are removed from the offspring. Im certain now that you clearly do not understand hybrid seed corn.
 
sim.-ang.king":35d6u4kc said:
Oh, internet experts, where would we be without you? A simple search and you instantly transform from a grass farmer, to a expert in crop hybridization, and genetics.
:banana:
sim.-ang.king":35d6u4kc said:
Just get do to the point, you really don't care about the science, you just care about your opinion, and agenda (or it could be someone else's opinion since you like to believe anything off the internet).

And here come the insults. I wondered how many posts it would take politely using facts, backed up with un-biased resources, and stating when my opinion was being stated. I wonder what this agenda is you speak of ? I am putting some of these things into practice, and seeing results. Isn't this a good thing? I usually lurk on here as you can see by my number of posts, usually stop following a thread when discussion turns into insults and name calling so I'll leave you with a quote I recently read:
" Most people would rather fail conventionally, than to succeed un-conventionally."
 
OK, if wikipedia isn't good enough, here's the full Brittanica article
offspring of parents that differ in genetically determined traits. The parents may be of different species, genera, or (rarely) families. The term hybrid, therefore, has a wider application than the terms mongrel or crossbreed, which usually refer to animals or plants resulting from a cross between two races, breeds, strains, or varieties of the same species. There are many species hybrids in nature (in ducks, oaks, blackberries, etc.), and, although naturally occurring hybrids between two genera have been noted, most of these latter result from human intervention.

Because of basic biological incompatibilities, sterile hybrids (those incapable of producing living young) such as the mule (a hybrid between a jackass and a mare) commonly result from crosses between species. Some interspecific hybrids, however, are fertile and true breeding. These hybrids can be sources for the formation of new species. Many economically or aesthetically important cultivated plants (bananas, coffee, peanuts, dahlias, roses, bread wheats, alfalfa, etc.) have originated through natural hybridization or hybridization induced by chemical means, temperature changes, or irradiation.

The process of hybridization is important biologically because it increases the genetic variety (number of different gene combinations) within a species, which is necessary for evolution to occur. If climatic or habitat conditions change, individuals with certain combinations may be eliminated, but others with different combinations will survive. In this way, the appearance or behaviour of a species gradually may be altered. Such natural hybridization, which is widespread among certain species, makes the identification and enumeration of species very difficult.
 
ibetyamissedme":17jve6rh said:
Nesikep":17jve6rh said:
Oh, and in a hybrid, there are no genes removed. A hybrid is usually desirable because of better vigor, and as someone said, it's a cross of 2 purebred breeds.. That means you get predictability. In a case of where parent 1 has some gene aaBBcc, and parent 2 has AAbbCC, the offspring will invariably have AaBbCc.. Once you have the F2 cross you just have something that has no predictability
What do you mean in a hybrid no genes are removed? Two entire parents are removed from the offspring. Im certain now that you clearly do not understand hybrid seed corn.

How in the world do you come to the conclusion that two entire parents are removed from the offspring?

No, I do not understand hybrid seed corn, but I think I do understand hybrids.

So how about a link to some place that says a hybrid has two entire parents removed?
Edit:
In the breeding example above, like in ANY sexual reproduction, approximately half of the genes of each parent are not used, hybrids are no different there
 
dbr25":3gcypo49 said:
Just need some seeds and bags for corn, and different breeds for animals.
So at the point when you physically go to the field and physically remove the male and female sex organs from those plants thus removing those genes, are you simple minded enough to believe that you did not genetically modify that plant in a way nature never could have?
 
Nesikep":1lrqej4w said:
ibetyamissedme":1lrqej4w said:
Nesikep":1lrqej4w said:
Oh, and in a hybrid, there are no genes removed. A hybrid is usually desirable because of better vigor, and as someone said, it's a cross of 2 purebred breeds.. That means you get predictability. In a case of where parent 1 has some gene aaBBcc, and parent 2 has AAbbCC, the offspring will invariably have AaBbCc.. Once you have the F2 cross you just have something that has no predictability
What do you mean in a hybrid no genes are removed? Two entire parents are removed from the offspring. Im certain now that you clearly do not understand hybrid seed corn.

How in the world do you come to the conclusion that two entire parents are removed from the offspring?

No, I do not understand hybrid seed corn, but I think I do understand hybrids.

So how about a link to some place that says a hybrid has two entire parents removed?
Edit:
In the breeding example above, like in ANY sexual reproduction, approximately half of the genes of each parent are not used, hybrids are no different there
Two plants are cross bred, both plants have both sexes, in hybrid seed corn the male parent is removed from one plant and the female from the other. Now instead of four parents you have one parent from each plant to form the offspring. It is simple hybrid production done by direct human intervention for years. Google detasseling you got a lot to learn.
 
you're not removing parents!
It's like steering anything you don't want as a bull, and spaying everything you don't want as a cow.

In my example, you're making it impossible to have a male version of aaBBcc as well as the female version.

detasselling only increases the odds that you get what you want, most types of corn self-pollinate quite easily, so if you remove the male parts of those plants it'll have to pollinate to another one. This is just breeding.. selecting what you want to see more of.
 
Nesikep":3v9jn2b0 said:
you're not removing parents!
It's like steering anything you don't want as a bull, and spaying everything you don't want as a cow.

In my example, you're making it impossible to have a male version of aaBBcc as well as the female version.

detasselling only increases the odds that you get what you want, most types of corn self-pollinate quite easily, so if you remove the male parts of those plants it'll have to pollinate to another one. This is just breeding.. selecting what you want to see more of.
You remove the chromosomes (the genetic make up) from the male or female of one plant, and replace it with the male or female chromosomes from another plant. So in turn you remove what genes you don't want and replace it with the genes you do want, depending on if that trait is carried by the male or female.
 
ibetyamissedme":3hprvlkw said:
If hybrid seed corn is a simple cross how do the 2 parents remove themselves? Simple question.

Each kernel only has two parents. This is true whether left to nature or detasseled. The premise that there were ever 4 is flat wrong. Detasseling is just selecting which you want to "sire" the kernel if you will. Just like only putting one bull in the breeding pasture.
 
VirginiaCattle":dcutwmm2 said:
ibetyamissedme":dcutwmm2 said:
If hybrid seed corn is a simple cross how do the 2 parents remove themselves? Simple question.

Each kernel only has two parents. This is true whether left to nature or detasseled. The premise that there were ever 4 is flat wrong. Detasseling is just selecting which you want to "sire" the kernel if you will. Just like only putting one bull in the breeding pasture.
Without detasseling you will have two males contributing to each female, it ain't rocket science.
 
Nesikep":dg7mx2zt said:
you're not removing parents!
It's like steering anything you don't want as a bull, and spaying everything you don't want as a cow.

In my example, you're making it impossible to have a male version of aaBBcc as well as the female version.

detasselling only increases the odds that you get what you want, most types of corn self-pollinate quite easily, so if you remove the male parts of those plants it'll have to pollinate to another one. This is just breeding.. selecting what you want to see more of.
With hybrid seed corn you absolutely removed two parents there is no other way to produce a hybrid everything else is a simple cross bred, again it isn't rocket science you have a lot to learn, arguing the facts of how it happens won't get you anywhere.
 
Virginiacattle, thanks, that's what I was getting at. It's only (greatly) increasing the odds of you getting what you want.

Ibetyamissedme, I think you had 2 males contributing to your DNA, that's for certain... Corn, like pretty much any other plant, animal, and anything else that reproduces sexually gets half it's DNA from each side.. I really shouldn't need to explain the birds and the bees here.
With detasselling you're removing the self-polination option, nothing more.

SHOW ME A LINK to where you're getting your info from. Apparently neither the wikipedia or the Brittanica definition of a hybrid is good enough for you, so I want to know where you get yours from.
 
Self pollinating plants are a lot different then cattle.
When a plant self pollinates, it's actually cloning it's self. So when you introduce a new parent, which is a different variety, you create a hybrid.
Single cell bacteria do the same thing when they split.
 
Nesikep":3owi5ksu said:
Virginiacattle, thanks, that's what I was getting at. It's only (greatly) increasing the odds of you getting what you want.

Ibetyamissedme, I think you had 2 males contributing to your DNA, that's for certain... Corn, like pretty much any other plant, animal, and anything else that reproduces sexually gets half it's DNA from each side.. I really shouldn't need to explain the birds and the bees here.
With detasselling you're removing the self-polination option, nothing more.

SHOW ME A LINK to where you're getting your info from. Apparently neither the wikipedia or the Brittanica definition of a hybrid is good enough for you, so I want to know where you get yours from.
detasseling removes all pollination options, thus it genetically modified the offspring by way of the human hand, finally you might be grasping this, albeit slowly.
 
Still no link.
So I'll provide one http://www.farmwest.com/book/export/html/31

It is selective breeding, you're removing the self-pollination option. THAT IS ALL, the kernel STILL needs to be pollinated, and you're going to have a bunch of corn plants of another cultivar that will still have tassels..
I maintain my position, it is no different than steering anything you don't want as a bull, thus your cows will need to be bred by the bull of your choice.
 
ibetyamissedme":3valmqz7 said:
VirginiaCattle":3valmqz7 said:
ibetyamissedme":3valmqz7 said:
If hybrid seed corn is a simple cross how do the 2 parents remove themselves? Simple question.

Each kernel only has two parents. This is true whether left to nature or detasseled. The premise that there were ever 4 is flat wrong. Detasseling is just selecting which you want to "sire" the kernel if you will. Just like only putting one bull in the breeding pasture.
Without detasseling you will have two males contributing to each female, it ain't rocket science.

They might both be potentially contributing but only one can be successful. There can only be one male contributor to each individual kernel. So you are just removing the competition. Each kernel on an ear could have a different male contributor but you aren't removing a parent from the kernel. You are only limiting the options of which that parent could be.
 
Nesikep":s5xbtle2 said:
Still no link.
So I'll provide one http://www.farmwest.com/book/export/html/31

It is selective breeding, you're removing the self-pollination option. THAT IS ALL, the kernel STILL needs to be pollinated, and you're going to have a bunch of corn plants of another cultivar that will still have tassels..
I maintain my position, it is no different than steering anything you don't want as a bull, thus your cows will need to be bred by the bull of your choice.
Amazing even after you posted a very good link that explains how hybrid corn is genetically modified by direct human intervention you still think is is a simple cross bred.
 
Explain how it is not a crossbred then, explain why it isn't anything different than AI.

BTW, it's "You're a moron"
 
VirginiaCattle":1abed0o1 said:
ibetyamissedme":1abed0o1 said:
Without detasseling you will have two males contributing to each female, it ain't rocket science.

They might both be potentially contributing but only one can be successful. There can only be one male contributor to each individual kernel. So you are just removing the competition. Each kernel on an ear could have a different male contributor but you aren't removing a parent from the kernel. You are only limiting the options of which that parent could be.
so are you suggesting they sort each and every kernel by its male parent? No they don't they sort by detasseling. Human intervention that genetically modifies the ear to produce exactly the offspring they desire. None of which can happen naturally thru a simple cross bred.
 
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