Gas prices....grass roots movement?

[VanC]

Ps. Gas is $2.82 here now, which brings it cheaper than it was in the 80's. huh Frankie ;-) :lol:

Nope. Prices for gas recently hit an all time high, even figuring for inflation.

According to the cited graph, this is a false atatement. It clearly shows gas was more expensive in the early 80's when adjusted for inflation.

And when George W. Bush was elected president gasoline prices were way less than $2 here. But you go ahead and be grateful for $2.82 gasoline. I'm not.

I'm not either, but I'm not so partisan and short-sighted that I blame everything on the President. There have been many reasons cited on here recently on why gas is becoming so expensive. Two biggies, IMO, are the increased demand from emerging nations such as India and China, and the fact that we Americans refuse to change our ways and conserve more. The fact that someone as intelligent as you takes such a simplistic approach to a very complex problem is mind boggling.

http://www.randomuseless.info/gasprice/gasprice.html

This is hilarious!! :lol: :lol: You're citing as evidence what ONE PERSON in one area paid for gas over the past 25 years??!! Speaking of pitiful! While the graph does show the average price of gas nationwide, it doesn't show it as adjusted for inflation. I would find that much more useful, and it still wouldn't change the many reasons for the increase.

 

[KenB]

:roll: Not only do we have record oil company profits, but we have high inflation to go with the high price of fuel.

 

[VanC]

:roll: Not only do we have record oil company profits, but we have high inflation to go with the high price of fuel.

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/infl ... ation.aspx

This site gives inflation rates for each month going back to 1914. Do some comparisons. Check out the years right after WWII or the 1970's. Anyone who thinks inflation is all that high now is grasping at straws.

 

[aplusmnt]

:roll: Not only do we have record oil company profits, but we have high inflation to go with the high price of fuel.

Here is some information from that website VanC posted. Look at the year and then read accross left to right each number is in a column for the month of the year. Example inflation rate in May 2007 was 2.69% and inflation rate for May 1980 14.41%. Times are better now than most years in history. Just people always think times are worse for them.

2007 2.08% 2.42% 2.78% 2.57% 2.69%
2006 3.99% 3.60% 3.36% 3.55% 4.17% 4.32% 4.15% 3.82% 2.06% 1.31% 1.97% 2.54% 3.24%
2005 2.97% 3.01% 3.15% 3.51% 2.80% 2.53% 3.17% 3.64% 4.69% 4.35% 3.46% 3.42% 3.39%
2004 1.93% 1.69% 1.74% 2.29% 3.05% 3.27% 2.99% 2.65% 2.54% 3.19% 3.52% 3.26% 2.68%
2003 2.60% 2.98% 3.02% 2.22% 2.06% 2.11% 2.11% 2.16% 2.32% 2.04% 1.77% 1.88% 2.27%
2002 1.14% 1.14% 1.48% 1.64% 1.18% 1.07% 1.46% 1.80% 1.51% 2.03% 2.20% 2.38% 1.59%
2001 3.73% 3.53% 2.92% 3.27% 3.62% 3.25% 2.72% 2.72% 2.65% 2.13% 1.90% 1.55% 2.83%
2000 2.74% 3.22% 3.76% 3.07% 3.19% 3.73% 3.66% 3.41% 3.45% 3.45% 3.45% 3.39% 3.38%

1982 8.39% 7.62% 6.78% 6.51% 6.68% 7.06% 6.44% 5.85% 5.04% 5.14% 4.59% 3.83% 6.16%
1981 11.83% 11.41% 10.49% 10.00% 9.78% 9.55% 10.76% 10.80% 10.95% 10.14% 9.59% 8.92% 10.35%
1980 13.91% 14.18% 14.76% 14.73% 14.41% 14.38% 13.13% 12.87% 12.60% 12.77% 12.65% 12.52% 13.58%
1979 9.28% 9.86% 10.09% 10.49% 10.85% 10.89% 11.26% 11.82% 12.18% 12.07% 12.61% 13.29% 11.22%
1978 6.84% 6.43% 6.55% 6.50% 6.97% 7.41% 7.70% 7.84% 8.31% 8.93% 8.89% 9.02% 7.62%
1977 5.22% 5.91% 6.44% 6.95% 6.73% 6.87% 6.83% 6.62% 6.60% 6.39% 6.72% 6.70% 6.50%
1976 6.72% 6.29% 6.07% 6.05% 6.20% 5.97% 5.35% 5.71% 5.49% 5.46% 4.88% 4.86% 5.75%
1975 11.80% 11.23% 10.25% 10.21% 9.47% 9.39% 9.72% 8.60% 7.91% 7.44% 7.38% 6.94% 9.20%

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Infl ... rentPage=2

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Infl ... ation.aspx

 

[Frankie]

I hope you two have red faces. To figure inflation, they don't include the price of food or energy. So don't throw inflation up as a smoke screen.


http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/15/news/ec ... 2007061511

 

[Frankie]

Nope. Prices for gas recently hit an all time high, even figuring for inflation.

According to the cited graph, this is a false atatement. It clearly shows gas was more expensive in the early 80's when adjusted for inflation.

Shame on you, Van. You should know I'd never put something out that I can't back up. From the link:

"Gasoline prices have soared to levels never seen before as even the inflation-adjusted price for a gallon of unleaded topped the 1981 record spike in price that had stood for 26 years."

http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/21/news/ec ... /index.htm

Of course, you can question the source of the quote if you want; it's only Money magazine. :lol: :lol:

And when George W. Bush was elected president gasoline prices were way less than $2 here. But you go ahead and be grateful for $2.82 gasoline. I'm not.

I'm not either, but I'm not so partisan and short-sighted that I blame everything on the President. There have been many reasons cited on here recently on why gas is becoming so expensive. Two biggies, IMO, are the increased demand from emerging nations such as India and China, and the fact that we Americans refuse to change our ways and conserve more. The fact that someone as intelligent as you takes such a simplistic approach to a very complex problem is mind boggling.

And the fact that you defend these prices, buys into the excuses, isn't really mind boggling.

This is hilarious!! :lol: :lol: You're citing as evidence what ONE PERSON in one area paid for gas over the past 25 years??!! Speaking of pitiful! While the graph does show the average price of gas nationwide, it doesn't show it as adjusted for inflation. I would find that much more useful, and it still wouldn't change the many reasons for the increase.

Show me what you've paid for gas over the last 25 years. I have no such information; I thought it might be interesting to the Texas people to compare their memories to this guy's notes.

 

[VanC]

To figure inflation, they don't include the price of food or energy. So don't throw inflation up as a smoke screen.


http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/15/news/ec ... 2007061511

What the heck are you talking about? I don't consider pointing out that someone has made a false statement a smoke screen. I was responding to this:

:roll: Not only do we have record oil company profits, but we have high inflation to go with the high price of fuel.

:roll: :roll:

 

[Frankie]

To figure inflation, they don't include the price of food or energy. So don't throw inflation up as a smoke screen.


http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/15/news/ec ... 2007061511

What the heck are you talking about? I don't consider pointing out that someone has made a false statement a smoke screen. I was responding to this:

:roll: Not only do we have record oil company profits, but we have high inflation to go with the high price of fuel.

:roll: :roll:

So you were. My apologies.

I'll set back and wait for you to acknowledge that I was right about record high gasoline prices. Think I'll have to wait long?

 

[VanC]

To figure inflation, they don't include the price of food or energy. So don't throw inflation up as a smoke screen.


http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/15/news/ec ... 2007061511

What the heck are you talking about? I don't consider pointing out that someone has made a false statement a smoke screen. I was responding to this:

:roll: Not only do we have record oil company profits, but we have high inflation to go with the high price of fuel.

:roll: :roll:

So you were. My apologies.

I'll set back and wait for you to acknowledge that I was right about record high gasoline prices. Think I'll have to wait long?

No, you won't. I hereby officially acknowledge that you were right about record high gasoline prices. That is, if you can believe a left-wing, Bush-hating rag like Money Magazine. ;-)

However, I still maintain that the reason for those high prices is a matter of debate and is more complex than only blaming the President or oil executives.

 

[aplusmnt]

As Van pointed out our comments about inflation was in regards to KenB's comment that we have high inflation. We compared apples to apples.

As for gas prices reaching an all time high, I will concede that for a two week period if not shorter, gas prices reached an all time high.

But what you are failing to acknowledge is that you are picking out one or two weeks during memorial day holiday. And comparing it to a whole year if not decade that gas prices were higher than we have had under Bush.

Is this an accurate comment yes or no?

"Gas Prices have been cheaper every minute of every day Bush has been president except for a specific time period less than one month long out of his 7 years in office when comparing it and adjusting for inflation from 1980?"

In other words Bush has been in office around 78 months and out of them 77 months have had lower gas prices than we had in the 1980's when it was $1.20.

But you like to hang on to a weekend peak defiantly less than a couple weeks. I never paid that peak personally.

Can you admit you cherry picked them couple weeks when the prices we talked about in the 80's were prices of the norm that stayed month after month at these high prices.

Libs are so typical at cherry picking a blimp on the radar and turning it into a life long tragedy.

Maybe we should look at some averages in future so you can see the real picture. Maybe figure average price per gallon for whole year of 1980 or 1981 and then figure last 12 months and see how the averages work out? Want to make some bets on who paid the highest gas prices?

But then we know you are not very good at figuring averages and margins! You like to pick little bits and pieces out. Example: Them evil Oil companies make billions in profit but you can not acknowledge when looking at margins they are not even close to the top profitable businesses in America. You just get blowed away by all them 0000000's.

Do you do that with your cattle? Do you only look at how big the checks coming in are and never look at the profit margin you have after deducting expenses and money invested?

 

[Frankie]

I'm not cherry picking anything. Gasoline prices are double (or more) what they were when Bush took office. I haven't said he's totally responsible for the increase in prices, any more than for the increase in fertilizer, food.....oh, wait, those are higher because oil is higher. Silly me.

Talk about cherry picking! You can't EVER compare profits from an oil company with profits from a financial company (for example) any more than from your janitoral business to your cow business. The honest thing to do is to look at profits from year to year within that industry. And oil company profits under George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are out of sight, while gasoline prices are too. But you're telling me there's no connection. Don't make me laugh.

 

[aplusmnt]

I'm not cherry picking anything. Gasoline prices are double (or more) what they were when Bush took office. I haven't said he's totally responsible for the increase in prices, any more than for the increase in fertilizer, food.....oh, wait, those are higher because oil is higher. Silly me.

Talk about cherry picking! You can't EVER compare profits from an oil company with profits from a financial company (for example) any more than from your janitoral business to your cow business. The honest thing to do is to look at profits from year to year within that industry. And oil company profits under George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are out of sight, while gasoline prices are too. But you're telling me there's no connection. Don't make me laugh.

When you look at oil companies profits you are not putting them in the proper perspective. If you invest 1,000's expect 1,000's in profits. If you invest Millions expect Millions in return. And if you are an oil company and invest Billions then expect Billions in return.

Just like in Cattle, if a rancher has 5,000 head he will make more total profit. If a Hobby guy has 10 head he will make a smaller total profit. But it is possible for each of them to have a margin of profit per head of say $150.00.

$150.00 x 5,000 head = $750,000.00 in profit
$150.00 x 10 = $1,500.00 in profit

Do you not think it would be fair for the Rancher who has most likely invested Millions of Dollars into his business to make $750,000 a year profit? Or should he be showing numbers closer to the guy with 10 cows who probably only has a few thousand invested so people like you will not get Jealous?

Return on investment is the same rather you are a Janitor, Cattleman or oil company. In the end it all boils down to money spent vs money received. And that is where your margin of profit comes from. And oil companies have a low margin of profit.

I know I have a higher profit margin in my Janitor business than the oil companies do. If I had the same as the oil companies I would be out of business. I don't have enough money to invest to survive on such a small margin.

Plus we would not see these high gross profits from the oil companies that blow your mind if Clinton would not have allowed them to Merge. Of course we will see record profits because in past history they were smaller individual companies until Clinton let them become the monopoly they are today.

Just a perfect example of how a lib screws it up and a conservative (and i use that term loosely with Bush) get the heat from the mess. Kind of like 911 mess that Clinton allowed to happen.

 

[john250]

Quote from John250: "I still drive 5 miles for a pack of cigs and a newspaper."

Simple solution to this:

1. Have paper delivered (or mailed).
2. Don't buy cigarettes a pack at a time...buy a carton.
3. Buy several cartons at time via mail order outlets.

;-)

Yes, but:

Paper (Indy Star) doesn't have local delivery and my filtering software won't let me in to their website. And I don't know which software because some security freak geek installed so much security in my computer after I caught a virus that I've had to spend a year un-installing most of it.
I believe that I will quit smoking soon, so to buy a carton would be an admission of failure. I could drive 25 miles to KY, buy a carton and save big. But with a carton I'd smoke more.
Between gas prices and cig taxes, I may have to give up the illusion of quitting and buy multiple cartons. In fact, with Indiana cig taxes going up by 48 pennies on July 1, I may take the cattle trailer to KY and open a profitable side business here on copperhead road.
Seriously, I contend that most folks have not gotten serious about driving less. I mean really serious. Most of our grandparents and great grandparents went to town for only the most important things. Otherwise they stayed on the farm. We still drive an awful lot.

 

[KenB]

:roll: Not only do we have record oil company profits, but we have high inflation to go with the high price of fuel.

OK we don't have record high inflation.
I made that statement in regards to people comparing the price of gas now to 1980 (a year of very high inflation).

Lets compare the cost of gas now to what it was 10 years ago.

 

[aplusmnt]

:roll: Not only do we have record oil company profits, but we have high inflation to go with the high price of fuel.

OK we don't have record high inflation.
I made that statement in regards to people comparing the price of gas now to 1980 (a year of very high inflation).

Lets compare the cost of gas now to what it was 10 years ago.

Gas is higher now than it was 10 years ago. Gasoline has a few problems that are forcing it to go up.

1. it was under priced for decades to low and did not keep up with the rate of inflation. Kind of like minimum wage froze for years and now they want to increase it by a couple dollars and hour instead of a few cents each year like it probably should have been.

2. in last ten years outsourcing of our jobs has caused other countries like India and China to become industrialized and now they are using resources such as gasoline and oil at astronomical increases over the last ten years.

3. EPA standards have change drastically in last decade making it harder to produce gasoline and also making it more expensive. Most people do not realize that Diesel was going to go up 30-40 cents even before Katrina all due to the new EPA sulphur standards. The increase sneaked by everyone because it happened in conjunction with Katrina.

4. Since 911 we have had some pretty Historical events happening in and with the very location that most of the worlds oil comes from. The Middle east is a mess and it is a miracle that oil and gas prices are not way higher than they are now.

5. Around ten years ago or so Bill Clinton approved some oil company mergers that moved them from smaller oil companies into the Giants they are today.

I am sure there are a few other reasons why prices are higher today than they were 10 years ago, but then again everything is higher now than it was 10 years ago, why gas prices freeze when wages and everything else increases? I know I charge more to clean a toilet now than I did 10 years ago, so I do not complain that I have to pay more per gallon in gas.

One time or another it had to go from 10 Cents a gallon in early 1900's to $1.20 in the 80's and now it is time for it to move to above $2.00 a gallon Maybe even $3.00. Prices go up, that is the way the economy works!

 

[iowahawkeyes]

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/article ... 169e98.txt

A North Sioux City town is a finalist for a new refinery. Kind of an interesting article. I was surprised it was an option, but there is a pipeline from Canada through here. Everyone always says we have high gas b/c there are no new refineries, well maybe this is a good start.

 

[aplusmnt]

Was thinking about this conversation of gas prices being lower or Higher after adjusting for inflation. When you really think about it. Gas should be higher now than in the past EVEN after adjusting for inflation.

As a consumer it would be selfish to think that we should still be buying gas at the same rate we were in the 70's, 80's or even early 90's. The Product is not the same. And the rules for producing it are not the same.

If Government changes the type of product you have to produce and also changes the rules on how you produce it. Why should the consumer think they should still be able to buy it at no increase in price?

With all the EPA laws changed on emissions either from the Gasoline burning out the tailpipe. Or the EPA emissions, water regulations etc... placed on refineries. All these changes in themselves should push up the price of gasoline higher rather you take inflation into the mix or not.

We as Americans are spoiled, we think we are owed everything at a cheap price. We want our cake and eat it also. We want to feel good in regards the environment and Global Warming but we also want cheap gasoline.

Think about Gasoline from a Cattle perspective, how much would a Hamburger need to go up in price if the Government came in and said, due to emissions from cows butt Ranchers can only run 1 Cow calf pair per 20 acres. And all cows will need to be fed 5 lbs of corn a day because corn causes less emissions than grass does. Plus the Government says the State of Texas can no longer have cows in it, we are setting it aside for conservation reasons and making it a national park.

Would you expect McDonald's to still offer that cheap $1.00 double cheeseburger?