Frame questions

[Petercoates87]

So I have been looking at bulls. I don't understand how they judge the frame. I have read that most of you guys talk bout it too. Like hereford bull victor 719t has a frame of 6.0 what does that mean n y do some people like it n some people don't?

 

[Supa Dexta]

http://www.hereford.org/static/images/F ... eChart.jpg

Want to use it as another tool in determining offspring. If you want to raise or lower your cattle size, choose more or less frame.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Frame score is determined by measuring hip height and knowing the age of the animal. There are various charts, but I believe the oldest one was published by the University of Missouri.

 

[Petercoates87]

Oh boy this sounds like another dumb question but where around the frame. Walnut said hip height but how exactly?

 

[dun]

Oh boy this sounds like another dumb question but where around the frame. Walnut said hip height but how exactly?

Level from side to sie

 

[BC]

Hope this helps.

 

[Petercoates87]

Ok thanks guys. Makes a bit of sense to me. OK so lol here's another question. I got a mix mash of cows. What would you look for when deciding what semen to buy? Would something with a high frame rating make up for where a mixed breed might drop off?

 

[dun]

It depends on what you want to do. If all your are concerned with is increasing frame (penny wise and pound foolish) breed them to the biggest FS bull you can find. You'll still get a mized bag, some big some little, most in the middle.

 

[WalnutCrest]

It depends on what you want to do. If all your are concerned with is increasing frame (penny wise and pound foolish) breed them to the biggest FS bull you can find. You'll still get a mized bag, some big some little, most in the middle.

Exactly.

"Making my cows taller" is not really a business model.

What are you trying to achieve, exactly ... and why?

 

[elkwc]

Ok thanks guys. Makes a bit of sense to me. OK so lol here's another question. I got a mix mash of cows. What would you look for when deciding what semen to buy? Would something with a high frame rating make up for where a mixed breed might drop off?

A person has to analyze their cowherd and then make a decision from that. Without knowing the frame size of your cowherd it is hard to give a good opinion. And area makes a difference. To get top dollar for calves here most breeders strive for a frame 5.0-6.0 cow and a 5.5 to low FS 6 bull. This produces a calf that will do well usually and sell well. Also in our environment a cow lower than a 4.5 doesn't do well unless she is light muscled. So a lot goes into making a good bull selection.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Is your objective to maximize the production of each individual animal or the production of the herd?

Would you rather wean 10 calves weighing 650 lbs each ... or ... 15 calves weighing 500 lbs each? For which group do you get paid more money? If you ran 15 smaller cows on the same land you're running 10 larger animals, you'd make a pot full more money, but none of the people at the commodity market would ooh and ahh since the day you sold your calves you didn't have the biggest ones there.

So, what are you trying to achieve and why?

 

[Supa Dexta]

No matter the goal - cattle breeding is a long term game. Starting out with better females (or atleast what you want them to be) gives anyone a headstart.

 

[Petercoates87]

So if anyone me from past posts I'm in newfoundland Canada. It's not good at all here for buying cattle. So I'm just starting out with what I can get my hands on. So here's what I got.
Bunny- she is a 4 year old beef mix. I know her dam was a holestien Angus cross from a dairy farm. And her Sire is whatever was on our local pasture that year. Oh and she is roughly 1500 lbs or bigger.
Clover - is bunny's heifer 2 years old. She is beef mix also but does look alot like a hereford. She is small about 1100 lbs.
Daisy - not a beef she is a jersey I just got a soft spot for them n found one here for sale n bought her. She is 2 years old n roughly 1100 lbs.
And Coco- she is this year's Heifer and a dairy cross.
I got Charlie too he is from bunny last year's bull. So what I'm after is to use these girls expand but slowly breed out the **** if I can at all. Cause im goin to have to cull these cows at some point.Like bunny n clover are on a better local pasture this summer that has a real nice red Angus bull there. I'm hoping that one of the girls has a heifer to keep. I'd just like to raise some cattle so that I end up with 450 -500 lbs dressed weight at 12 -14 months. Last night I measured Charlie weight n he is only roughly 904 lbs live weight at 15 months I was hoping he would be closer to 1000lbs by now. I have a buddy that got a dexter cross n she throws bulls that dress 500- 550 at 12 months. I know everyone is goin to say sell them all n start over but ya got to see that the shipping and buying a good cows might only get me 2 lol. I'd rather breed good n keep the heifers.

 

[dun]

Not everyone. If you are going to buy a bull, buy as good quality as you can afford that has the size, build, etc. that you like. With the limited availability, start improving from the bull side. Your steers should still sell ok and all(most) of the heifers will be improvements over their mommas.
We all didn;t start with all that good of cattle. If you're in it for the long haul you can gradually improve and have herd you will be proud of. I would stay away from bulls with Brahman influence, or any of the outlier breeds like highlands, dexters and since you're wanting beef I would avoid dairy breeds or dairy crossbreeds.

 

[Petercoates87]

Yeah that's my plan to avoid the dairy breeds. But keep some or all the heifers. I know I'll slowly get a few good beef cattle n maybe I'll buy a few too. But for now I got to work with what I got. I'm only 29 n the family have always had a cow or 2 but kniwing what to do to make some reasonable steers to slaughter n sell is where I'm not sure on. I found a young dairy farmer that does AI n is willing to help me. So this is where all these questions come from.

 

[Supa Dexta]

What semen supplier do they deal with? genex, semex..etc

 

[Petercoates87]

Haven't found that out yet. She said she would get me their contact info to her rep.

 

[dun]

Having someone that can AI for you is a huge help for your situation

 

[Supa Dexta]

Once you know who the deal in, most have online catalogues, and guys here will have experience with most outfits and bulls.

 

[Ebenezer]

Would you rather wean 10 calves weighing 650 lbs each ... or ... 15 calves weighing 500 lbs each? For which group do you get paid more money? If you ran 15 smaller cows on the same land you're running 10 larger animals, you'd make a pot full more money, but none of the people at the commodity market would ooh and ahh since the day you sold your calves you didn't have the biggest ones there.

Two different issues: weight and/or frame score. Weight is secondary in value to frame score to order buyers. Cruel lesson to learn if you go short and heavy.

I think that FS at weaning tells more than FS at yearling. Type of development can enhance or depress FS at yearling but the weaning value will be closer to genetic potential.