? for banding people

[RAWCJW]

I banded a newborn bull last week and his sack fell off but his nuts are still there. Do I need to worry about anything? Ive been watching for flies. Looks kinda nasty all shriveled.

 

[MikeC]

I banded a newborn bull last week and his sack fell off but his nuts are still there. Do I need to worry about anything? Ive been watching for flies. Looks kinda nasty all shriveled.

Sounds like a physical impossibility to me.

 

[Outrigger2]

the band would usually not stay on if you missed the testicles, but weird things could happen. it usually takes a couple weeks for the sack to fall off. if you do see the testicles, i would cut or pull them. you may need to call a vet...

 

[fitz]

I banded a newborn bull last week and his sack fell off but his nuts are still there. Do I need to worry about anything? Ive been watching for flies. Looks kinda nasty all shriveled.

If you banded the calf last week have you considered that maybe everything is still there becoming "shriveled" ?
Fitz

 

[ERodrig]

I agree with fitz. From everything I've read on here and in other places, this process usually takes a while.

 

[Tx-beefmaster-showman]

I banded a newborn bull last week and his sack fell off but his nuts are still there.

I could just be a bit slower to grasp this idea, but you are saying that his nuts are hanging there with no sack? :shock: :shock:

 

[Aaron]

This is possible. We are dealing with it right now. Banded 2 weeks ago. Nuts on oldest calf swelled right up. At this point, the band has cut about half way through, and the skin is peeling off, with the main sack left behind. We are planning to rope him today and throw 2 more bands on to finish the job.

 

[Northern Rancher]

It's alot easier to get a knife and learn how to use it. Feedlots absolutely hate banded calves-while they work good if used right they can cause a real mess if not-one afternoon spent trying to cut stags that were done wrong will convince you of that. The worst deal I saw was this poor guy who fell for the idea if you pushed up the nuts and banded underneath it was just like using an implant-the difference between what steers brought and his 100 plus screwups was close to $20,000. Guess this is my antibanding rant for the year lol.

 

[MikeC]

The only way I have ever dealt with bands was at birth or shortly after.

Never had a problem. Ever.

We always knife cut bigger calves.

 

[dun]

It almost seems like the higher math of being able to count clear up to 2 is being lost!

 

[Limomike]

It almost seems like the higher math of being able to count clear up to 2 is being lost!

dun, you and I musta went to the same school...
Get out the calculator!!

 

[sjr725]

I have to admit - when I first read the topic, the mental picture of "banding people" did cross my mind! Ouch!
That being said, I have to side with Northern Rancher - we cut em - we usually have about 200 bull calves a year, never had an infection - never lost a calf, never had a stag, and I've never had to do it more than once! You know the old saying....Two in the hand is worth more than........

 

[RAWCJW]

Everything fell off must of been fine looks good. I have to admit banding a day old was easy and I can do it by myself. I have 2 bull calves same birth weight and less than a week apart. I banded one and I am going to cut the other close to weaning time, I want to see what the weight differences are.

 

[sjr725]

Why are you going to wait til close to weaning time to cut him? I'd do it now - no point in waiting, any setback will be greatly reduced by cutting him sooner - we cut ours at branding - they're usually about 2 months old.

 

[dun]

I have to admit - when I first read the topic, the mental picture of "banding people" did cross my mind!

I thought it was going to be about candidates for having it done to

 

[Sandy66]

If a person can't count to 2 how the heck are they going to learn to use a knife?

 

[RAWCJW]

Why are you going to wait til close to weaning time to cut him? I'd do it now - no point in waiting, any setback will be greatly reduced by cutting him sooner - we cut ours at branding - they're usually about 2 months old.

I want to see if the natural hormones make them grow any better.

 

[dun]

Just incase anyone missed it
From a post by MikeC on another thread:

Effects of Age and Method of Castration on Performance and Stress Response of Beef Cattle - Frequently Asked Questions


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Why is it so important to evaluate the effects of age and method of castration?
The main reasons calves are castrated are to reduce meat toughness, remove aggressive behavior and dark cutters. The process of castration is very stressful on beef cattle and leads also to a weight loss. Effect of castration on performance is independent of the breed and feeding systems. However, the age and method of castration have an important impact on growth performance and stress response of beef cattle. So, it is important to be aware of those consequences in order to choose the right age and the safer method.

How does age of castration affect performance and stress response?
During puberty, the testes primarily produce androgens that promote muscular development by increasing nitrogen retention. This does not occur until calves are 9-10 months old. After castration, calves start loosing weight and their average daily gain drops for a period. Castration at birth or close to birth reduces drastically the weight loss and associated stress. Contrary to common ideas, scientific studies have showed that calves castrated at birth reach weaning at the same live weight as calves castrated at weaning because the productivity differences due to testosterone are manifested after puberty (3-4 months after weaning). Moreover, by the time of beginning the fattening period as steers, calves castrated at birth will have a better corporal condition. So, it is better to castrate calves at birth or a short period after birth for all the reasons listed above and also because they are small, easy to handle and recovery is quicker. In term of stress response, it is lower in case of cattle castrated at an age less than 6 months indicating that when calves are castrated younger, they suffer less stress probably because of the discomfort caused as the testicular size increases (especially under 6 months age).

What happens when bulls are castrated at older ages?
In many productive systems, calves are castrated between 6 and 9 months of age at weaning; one of the most stressful managerial conditions for calves. However, the younger a calf is castrated, the less stressful is the procedure. Therefore, it's suggested that an earlier castration may reduce the stress, improve the animal welfare by reducing the castration-associated trauma and also the weaning associated stress. Studies found that cattle castrated post-puberty extend the weight loss for 4.5 months. This important weight loss would be associated in part with a less average daily feed intake but principally with an apoptotic process in the main testosterone-responsive muscle regions (particularly neck and shoulder), which would be triggered by testosterone withdrawal.

What about the method of castration?
Most common methods for castrating males are surgical and rubber banding. For plasma cortisol concentration as a measure of stress response, there is no significant difference between surgically castrated and banded cattle. However, levels of Haptoglobin- a serum protein that can be used to quantify the discomfort of animals- were higher for surgical procedure. Rubber banding may be, if done appropriately less stressful and safer for young calves particularly because surgical castration is often associated with severe complications such as infections and hemorrhages.

Is it advisable to use rubber banding on bulls 1-year or older?
Despite that average daily gain was not affected by the technique of castration employed, rubber banding is not advisable to use for post pubertal cattle because their developed genital organs may affect its precise application and result on some wounds.

When is the best time to castrate calves?
Considering the productive disadvantage of delaying castration beyond birth and the safer and less laborious that is the rubber banding castration, it is recommended that castration occur at or shortly after birth with the rubber band. Castration after puberty is not suggested because cattle loose the advantage of anabolic testosterone properties they gained before being castrated.


Reference article: Bretschneinder, G. 2005. Effects of age and method of castration on performance and stress response of beef male cattle. Liv.Prod. Sci. 97, 89-100

 

[I luv herfrds]

RAWCJW We tried that with just one calf, Talked to the vet, he said the best way to find out about the weight difference is to do all of them. Band at a day old one year and cut at weaning the next.
Couldn't see the difference in just one calf.

 

[USMCRanchGirl]

I have to admit - when I first read the topic, the mental picture of "banding people" did cross my mind!

I thought it was going to be about candidates for having it done to

I have a few I'd like to nominate!