Financing Cattle?? &*^^&&%$#$%)**@

[Ruark]

From a legal perspective, it may also be significant that he's had these cattle for THREE YEARS, since the original deal was made, and I'm sure you didn't create a whole new contract every time you "revised the payment plan."

Heck, some of those cows (if he still has them) could be dead by now. What's his liability there? What about calves that were born during this period? Whose are they? I can see how "cow law" could get complicated.

And so we wait with bated breath... :shock:

 

[2barmcattle]

Actually after looking at the Contracts it has been 2 yrs. Guess it just seemed like longer.

And YES....Bonsman is the real deal. I sent him the Contracts, he reviewed them, offered suggestions and offered how to handle a transaction like this in the future. Not necessarily what I wanted to hear and....he was very helpful and knowlegable. Very gracious gesture!!

Thanks Bonsman!!!!

 

[LazyARanch]

It was a lovely birthday present for you from Bonsman!

Happy Birthday 2barmcattle :bday:

 

[ANAZAZI]

YES! :bday:
Hate to admit it; in the beginning, I red your screen name 2 - barn - cattle! :banana: :banana:

 

[Workinonit Farm]

1st, Happy Birthday 2barmcattle and I'm sorry to hear of this deal gone awry.

2nd, Way To Go Bonsman!! Very nice and generous of you to help this guy out.

3rd, 2barmcattle, don't ever give up on being a "nice guy". Just know who you are helping out as best you can. My first Jersey was bought "on time" from a fellow I didn't know very well, but he was willing to take a chance. Similar to Kenny Thomas it was more of a verbal payment plan, with just the price of the Jersey written on a slip of paper. I kept my word and paid for her in 2 payments....on time (granted it was only $450.00) but I sure did appreciate what this guy did for me seeing how I really wanted this heifer and didn't have the full $450.00 at the time. Having said that, I am a believer in contracts. If for no other reason than to try to keep both parties honest. Especially where significant amounts of money are involved. But, I do know of many folks who buy/sell/trade on handshakes alone and it always works out. I suppose that really knowing who you're dealing with is the key.

Good luck with this issue and keep us posted as to how it goes.

I have gleaned much info from this thread, its been a good one.

Katherine

 

[2barmcattle]

Well after a few emails from this guy....he is really scared. He admitted to have sold all of my cattle and SAID he wanted to make it right.

Based on the information Bonsman helped me with...I really prayed about it and I feel like he is an immature kid that got himself in a hell of a mess and did not know how to get out of it. I gave him ONE option and that was to call me at 9:00 tonight if he wanted out of this. He made the call (after not returning my calls for quite some time) The reason was for me to be able to rip his little ass for setting such a poor example for his children and his wife. I told him that his word is all he has in life and if his word is no good it does not matter how good his credit is or how much money he has. I told him that I wanted to hear that he will NEVER do this to another person again and that he will go to his church and ask for forgiveness for what he has done I will give him 3 months to have me paid in full and that I wanted honesty, integrity and excellent communication throughout the whole 3 mos. I told him that I would be doing him no favors for letting him start some type of payment plan because I felt like he needed to hurt in order to heal and in order to pay for what he has done. If at any time I feel like he is not being honest and doing all he can or if I were to find out he was setting a poor example for his kids....I would prosecute to the full extent.

Here I go again and....I think it is worth the risk to make a decent person out of someone who MIGHT have gotten in way deeper than he knew how to get out of. I now know and accept that if he doesn't pay it is MY fault. Kind of feel like I MAY get some type of return anyway. Just willing to take the risk I guess. Maybe when he is 48 yrs old like me he will remember the guy that gave him
a second chance when he didn't deserve one.

Thanks Soo much for all of your help!!!! And, NO I do not finance cattle!!!!! :tiphat:

 

[dun]

It's said that no good deed goes unpunished. My opinion is that it all comes back to you. Mayne not with him but from some other source. Glad to hear he isn;t a sly and cunning cow thief.

 

[2barmcattle]

Good point Dun. My father has always told me that and I do believe it.

 

[Gators Rule]

Hard times are effecting everybody. A gentleman's approach to a bad situation will save you lots of time, money, and heartache. Just calmly explain to the guy that you are coming to get them, to help you recover your losses, and do it with carefully placed words. I will bet he will even help you load them.

Yep....tried it. I sent him a message (here again he won't answer my calls) saying that I would like to pick them up Thurs or Fri....whatever is good for him. I just got a message back that says " Cannot perform at this time. Will pay ASAP."

By gosh...I am not going to quit trusting people. And......looks like IF he still has them..I am in for a fight.

Lesson learned. :bang: :bang:

I know we are a pretty sharp bunch around here but probably not as well informed as you attorney. Why not ask him what your legal standing is.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[kenny thomas]

Bonsman, I have learned some things here. I even pay for some cattle but have a friend keep and trade them and I get back my origional investment plus half of the profits. Maybe I need to look at a contract for this also. Right now there is nothing on paper. I only supply the money and sometimes don't even know where he buys the cows from. Have made good profit so far but I have nothing showing I really own them. Just a friends aggrement.

The number one rule is know who you are dealing with. He has possession which "may" allow him to sell the cattle and leave you with a claim against him. You would need a written agreement with him; and then file a UCC#1 to protect yourself. This type of problem (where you lose your cattle) typically happens in a bankruptcy where the Trustee can "jam" you and take the cattle. It is all about the UCC #1 getting filed.

A little different deal here Bonsman. He has possession and is expected to sell them. He has the knowledge, can seem to find some deals and can get them traded at a profit which makes me money. He just does not have the extra money. Maybe I trust him too much but if he called at 4am saying he needs $10,000 cash to buy some cows I will get up and take it to him. I will check into this further but almost all of the deals are cash and nobody but him, me, and my wife knows about my involvement. Makes me think a little different about it though.

 

[3waycross]

I read what had been posted and despite all the feelgood stories about how this fella is going to see the light and pay up I wouldn't bet the ranch on it. He has already proven(twice) that he is a liar and a thief. HE may even think he is gonna pay but I don't think he will........hope I am wrong. :frowns:

 

[Bonsman]

Bonsman, I have learned some things here. I even pay for some cattle but have a friend keep and trade them and I get back my origional investment plus half of the profits. Maybe I need to look at a contract for this also. Right now there is nothing on paper. I only supply the money and sometimes don't even know where he buys the cows from. Have made good profit so far but I have nothing showing I really own them. Just a friends aggrement.

The number one rule is know who you are dealing with. He has possession which "may" allow him to sell the cattle and leave you with a claim against him. You would need a written agreement with him; and then file a UCC#1 to protect yourself. This type of problem (where you lose your cattle) typically happens in a bankruptcy where the Trustee can "jam" you and take the cattle. It is all about the UCC #1 getting filed.

A little different deal here Bonsman. He has possession and is expected to sell them. He has the knowledge, can seem to find some deals and can get them traded at a profit which makes me money. He just does not have the extra money. Maybe I trust him too much but if he called at 4am saying he needs $10,000 cash to buy some cows I will get up and take it to him. I will check into this further but almost all of the deals are cash and nobody but him, me, and my wife knows about my involvement. Makes me think a little different about it though.

Kenny, the number ONE RULE is to know who you are dealing with. It is all a matter of trust and risk vs. reward. Only you can make that call.

 

[chippie]

Kenny, you really need to have something written if only to protect your family should anything happen to you or to protect you should anything happen to him. (Heaven forbid)

 

[Ruark]

I now know and accept that if he doesn't pay it is MY fault.

I seriously doubt that he's going to come up with $5600 cash in 3 months. I'm sure he'll come up with some more "poor little me" lines, though. Looks like this is one you'll just have to write off.

 

[chippie]

I've been thinking about this. If he had an ounce of honesty or integrity in him, he would have been upfront with you instead of giving you the run around. It doesn't matter how old a person is. Youth is no excuse.

Did you ask him why he didn't pay you when he sold the cattle?

 

[Jalopy]

Sure hope for both of your sakes he makes an honest deal of all this. As for youth sometimes it is a good excuse as inexperience and immaturity with financial problems can lead desperate people to do desperate things that they would normally know they shouldn't, but do not know how to extricate themselves from the problem. Maybe this three month window is the breathing room he needs to correct the problem. Good Luck to all involved!

 

[Jim62]

..........."Well after a few emails from this guy....he is really scared. He admitted to have sold all of my cattle and SAID he wanted to make it right. ......

Been following this problem pretty close. I think you will find out in the end that you are dealing with a an individual with a very serious drug and/or alcohol addiction problem. Folks so afflicted are the only ones I have ever dealt with that can look you right in the eye and be lying their a$$es off at the same time. He may even believe what he's telling you, at least until you're out of sight. I doubt you'll ever see a penny of the money.

I'd go back to plan A-----write it off as an expensive lesson, and go on about your business.

 

[dun]

I think you will find out in the end that you are dealing with a an individual with a very serious drug and/or alcohol addiction problem. Folks so afflicted are the only ones I have ever dealt with that can look you right in the eye and be lying their a$$es off at the same time.

Not so. I had a guy that was sober and didn;t do drugs that stopped by one evening to let me know that he would be by in the morning to pay what he owed me. Didn;t hear from him but I heard from his boss. The guy when he left my place stole a company truck and hauled butt out of state.

 

[2barmcattle]

I've been thinking about this. If he had an ounce of honesty or integrity in him, he would have been upfront with you instead of giving you the run around. It doesn't matter how old a person is. Youth is no excuse.

Did you ask him why he didn't pay you when he sold the cattle?

Absolute ZERO honesty and/or integrity with me in the past and now that I feel he wants out of this screw up..... I feel like I may be able to turn him into a decent person. I did ask him what he did with the money. I would love to share that whole story and lets just say he "paid other bills" with the money.

I KNOW many won't agree with me trying to fix this STUPIDITY from this kid and......maybe I'm doing it for his little girls.

 

[chippie]

Have you talked to him face to face yet? You can tell a lot about a person by looking him in the eye.

Sometimes a reality check is what it takes to make a person turn around. As long as he is allowed to get by with stuff, the chances of him changing and becoming a responsible person are slim.

I sure hope that he isn't a doper or drinker. If he is, you are just spinning your wheels. Good luck.