Fertilizing clover

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snoopdog

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Seeded some clover and got a decent stand looks like , how much nitrogen should I apply for the other grass at this time ? Didn't sample this year but have p and k up to snuff as of last year , hayfield . I'm thinking about 50lb /acre , and sample midsummer , what do you think ? I certainly don't want to hurt the clover but I definitely need a good first cutting . I'll add , it is a 15% alfalfa mix, mostly fescue /bermuda established grass field . Tkanks ahead of time .
 

Texasmark

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If you follow the Ag. school's train of thought, you replace what you take off. If you remove a ton of a crop and it tests X % N, you just removed that many # of N from your soil. Replace it or suffer the consequences next year.

Since you said you do soil samples, just look at what you added/removed since your last test, throw in the added clover contribution and you have your answer.

I plant Austrian winter peas and use the N from the nodules to get that part for my crop. I did kick in some extra N this year because the available bag fert. was not per a test result and was an even blend. I had originally planned to till in for soil humus and didn't pay attention to the numbers but now I have a new customer that might be wanting the crop so it may come off after all. Now that we got some rain and temps staying above freezing, adequate sunshine, the rye-pea combo is bursting at the seams.
 

Ebenezer

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Anything over 30 pounds per acre shuts down nitrogen fixation of legume roots but does not hurt legumes. They just use the N you apply, too. The issue is whether you get so much grass from a N application of N that it smothers out the legumes.
 

M-5

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The resident expert advised me to not fertilize the grass until after clover seeds , I am not looking to produce a soild hay crop of clover either and only want the clover to reseed and build the soil.
 

Stocker Steve

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snoopdog":2cm7lg4q said:
I'll add , it is a 15% alfalfa mix, mostly fescue /bermuda established grass field . Tkanks ahead of time .

A pro would require a grass yield target before giving any input. I am not a pro:

- Recommend no N applied with over 30 to 40% legume. Some will still reccomend N becasue they are going for maximum yield, and there will be a response to N, but it may not be profitable.

- Treat 15% alfalfa as a grass stand. Now we are back to the grass yield target....
 

Ebenezer

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Stocker Steve":2ip81tek said:
Ebenezer":2ip81tek said:
Anything over 30 pounds per acre shuts down nitrogen fixation of legume roots but does not hurt legumes.

Where does 30#/a max come from?
Standard Extension comment. Seems it is on the soil test reports or reference sheets.
 
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snoopdog

snoopdog

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Ebenezer":18eqmsj7 said:
Anything over 30 pounds per acre shuts down nitrogen fixation of legume roots but does not hurt legumes. They just use the N you apply, too. The issue is whether you get so much grass from a N application of N that it smothers out the legumes.
The smothering issue was my main concern , but also my ignorance on the fixation /maturity levels of the clover stand . Do you get maximum fixation as it matures up to bloom or just how does that work ? Thanks again
 

ddd75

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i had 35 - 40% cover coverage and put out 100 lb / N on my fields. I doubled my hay yields.
 

Ebenezer

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snoopdog":2whravtp said:
Ebenezer":2whravtp said:
Anything over 30 pounds per acre shuts down nitrogen fixation of legume roots but does not hurt legumes. They just use the N you apply, too. The issue is whether you get so much grass from a N application of N that it smothers out the legumes.
The smothering issue was my main concern , but also my ignorance on the fixation /maturity levels of the clover stand . Do you get maximum fixation as it matures up to bloom or just how does that work ? Thanks again
The pounds of N produced by a legume species in the books: full growth period for that species. Clover plus commercial fertilizer is not a sin: just getting benefit of better forage from clovers without the N fixation or at worst more grass hay as some have said with less legumes in the mix. I am extreme in that I want the legumes to produce all of the N I can get. That's just my deal.
 

Stocker Steve

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Pounds of N per acre varies a lot with different legumes. Google and you will see a range of what an average stand of XXX produces per year.
Pounds of N per acre available varies a lot with the soil temperature. This is why some folks fertilize early or late to extend the growing season.
Pounds of N per acre varies a lot with stand density. For alfalfa, you can count the number of crowns per sq foot and multiply that by a value to get pounds N per acre credit from PLOW DOWN.
Pounds of N per acre varies a lot between ongoing growth and plow down. Some legumes do not share a lot of N until the plant dies.
 

Ebenezer

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Stocker Steve":27bvb2ky said:
Pounds of N per acre varies a lot with different legumes. Google and you will see a range of what an average stand of XXX produces per year.
Pounds of N per acre available varies a lot with the soil temperature. This is why some folks fertilize early or late to extend the growing season.
Pounds of N per acre varies a lot with stand density. For alfalfa, you can count the number of crowns per sq foot and multiply that by a value to get pounds N per acre credit from PLOW DOWN.
Pounds of N per acre varies a lot between ongoing growth and plow down. Some legumes do not share a lot of N until the plant dies.
That's why they show a range per species. For the ones which do not share N, such as s. lespedeza, the N gets to the other plants via grazing and resultant manure and urine. But not a deal with haying.

Point was, graze it down and do not allow it mature: a big drop out of the range.
 
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snoopdog

snoopdog

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I believe I will wait . Did some research after I posted and everything ties together with your replies , should have done it before , but I didn't .
 

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