feeding cows

[plumber_greg]

Just wondered, how much trouble does feeding grain in third trimester really cause"? Don't want an opinion from,"Don't really know much about the bull, the epd said he was calving ease." Who has had a proven bull, several crops, then fed the cows one year and had nothing but trouble"?
Reason I'm asking, I calve in late winter, feed cows in lots to sort every couple days, and never really had a problem. This year I had 2 heifers that got in with my yearlings, ate 5-6 lbs. of 14% mix daily since first part of Oct. Saw they were gonna' calve the other day so I got them in, just had been too lazy before that, and they had their calves unassisted, no problems.
Those two had late put up brome hay and the grain. What is the difference between that and near dairy quality hay and protein tubs in the third trimester"?
Just wondering cuz' everyone is always afraid to feed cows any grain.
BTW around 30 calves on the ground and only 2 bulls so far. gs

 

[inyati13]

I am interested to know myself. I have several heifers due and even though they are not on grain, they have access to all the hay they want in the form of hay rolls in a ring. The hay is grass hay. These heifers are in good condition and are holding some fat. It amazes me how easy it is to maintain condition. If anything, they have gained this winter!

 

[Backbone Ranch]

A few years ago, we fed our cows range cubes 5-7 days a week throughout the last trimester. We had calves ranging between 63 and 86 lbs with the majority of the bull calves being in the low 80's. We didn't feed range cubes the following year. We bred our cows to the same bull again the following year and his calves varied from 66 to 79 lbs. The 79 lb calves came from bigger cows instead of getting an 84 lb bull from a 1st calf heifer. The majority of the calves that were born were between 70 and 73 lbs at birth. All of the calves were still born unassisted. We now only feed range cubes when there is ice on the ground. We have noticed a substantial change in birth weights since we have removed range cubes from their diet.

 

[Stocker Steve]

A neighbor got a deal and switched from 100% grass hay to alfalfa hay one winter. His average bw went up about 5 #.

Aside from the increased feed value, better hay with more protein will digest and pass sooner, so the cows are able to eat more per day unless limit feed.

 

[inyati13]

Backbone and Stocker, good information. I am a little worried about my heifers. The grass hay I have is fescue, orchard grass and red clover. It was cut at the right time and put inside. I am wondering if what you said Steve is going on.

 

[plumber_greg]

Steve, does that mean the better hay won't cause bigger calves? Thanks Backbone, interesting. I always thought good cows could have good calves. Had an old cattleman from Glenkirk Farms tell me one time that to get the weaning weights up, you gotta' get the birth weights up. Then they started to have 170 calves from their herfords and went out of business. Remember the old Sportsman bull. Giant birthweights, giant weaning weights. There wasn't one of his daughters that milked. Saw him when he was weaned, something like 950. gs

 

[TexasBred]

Remember your cow is trying to meet her needs as well as the needs of a rapidly growing calf. Here's a pretty good read that should help some but feeding "adequate" protein and energy seldom leads to calving problems.

http://www.ag.auburn.edu/~chibale/an14b ... eeding.pdf

 

[inyati13]

TB, I saved that publication for reference. Thanks. I read it quickly but not in depth. It does not hit as hard on the issue of withholding nutrients in the 30 to 70 days pre-partum to the extent that I see comments on the forum, i.e., many posters sound an alarm about feeding practices during that period with a common theme that "this is the period when the nutrients contribute to the growth of the calf". The theme in the publication focuses on suppling the needs of the cow. I recently separated two of my heifers so I could reduce the amount of hay they are consuming. These heifers are due at the end of March so about 40 days. I have them on a lower quality grass hay (don't ask me to prove that, it is some hay that does not contain as much clover). These two are very well conditioned, I would guess at 7. My goal is controlling both quantity and quality.

PS: I have also put two cows in the birthing area. They are due in the next 10 days. I feed them one small square bale of hay per day, thus, half a bale per head. I throw a couple small wedges of alfalfa hay in on occasion. One of these cows is the cow in my previous post on "Cow Due" that you commented on. The other cow is a big cow (Skunk Tail).

I am running out of places to separate cattle.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I don't have time to limit feed. My cows get all (the straw and reed canary and corn stalks) they can eat. I give them a little DDG twice a week If we run out of grass hay. Feeding cows should not be complicated.
I have a few cows that always have big (95 to 115) pound calves. That is their problem. If I have to help they are gone. Calving should not be complicated.

 

[Aaron]

I don't have time to limit feed. My cows get all (the straw and reed canary and corn stalks) they can eat. I give them a little DDG twice a week If we run out of grass hay. Feeding cows should not be complicated.
I have a few cows that always have big (95 to 115) pound calves. That is their problem. If I have to help they are gone. Calving should not be complicated.

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[highgrit]

Sold a 7 month bred heifer today, I'd rather sell her than loose another one. Her birth canal seemed way to narrow for my liking. I would watch feeding bred heifers. I bought cheap hay and supplemented it with feed I ground. This is our first year having trouble calving out heifers. But it's been a really cold winter this year also.

 

[TexasBred]

TB, I saved that publication for reference. Thanks. I read it quickly but not in depth. It does not hit as hard on the issue of withholding nutrients in the 30 to 70 days pre-partum to the extent that I see comments on the forum, i.e., many posters sound an alarm about feeding practices during that period with a common theme that "this is the period when the nutrients contribute to the growth of the calf". The theme in the publication focuses on suppling the needs of the cow. I recently separated two of my heifers so I could reduce the amount of hay they are consuming. These heifers are due at the end of March so about 40 days. I have them on a lower quality grass hay (don't ask me to prove that, it is some hay that does not contain as much clover). These two are very well conditioned, I would guess at 7. My goal is controlling both quantity and quality.

PS: I have also put two cows in the birthing area. They are due in the next 10 days. I feed them one small square bale of hay per day, thus, half a bale per head. I throw a couple small wedges of alfalfa hay in on occasion. One of these cows is the cow in my previous post on "Cow Due" that you commented on. The other cow is a big cow (Skunk Tail).

I am running out of places to separate cattle.

The pics you post seem to show that most of your cattle are a bit over conditioned anyway. Probably just good grass and maybe too many "treats". That last 30-60 days is probably even more crucial than the previous 200+ in determining the what to expect from the cow and the calf. You're asking her to nourish the developing unborn calf because it triples in weight during the last 3 months of gestation, maintain body condition to promote normal calving (weak cows produce weak calves or NO calves), she si going to be expected to produce enough milk to grow the calf and she's expected to breed back between the 1st and 2nd cycle post calving. Assuming your hay, grazing or whatever has adequate nutritional values you're ok, but poor quality grazing and/or hay needs supplementation and seldom causes problems with calving. Most calving problems can be traced back to something else besides a bit of extra feed in late pregnancy.

 

[Limomike]

Sold a 7 month bred heifer today, I'd rather sell her than loose another one. Her birth canal seemed way to narrow for my liking. I would watch feeding bred heifers. I bought cheap hay and supplemented it with feed I ground. This is our first year having trouble calving out heifers. But it's been a really cold winter this year also.

I agree.

 

[inyati13]

TB, I saved that publication for reference. Thanks. I read it quickly but not in depth. It does not hit as hard on the issue of withholding nutrients in the 30 to 70 days pre-partum to the extent that I see comments on the forum, i.e., many posters sound an alarm about feeding practices during that period with a common theme that "this is the period when the nutrients contribute to the growth of the calf". The theme in the publication focuses on suppling the needs of the cow. I recently separated two of my heifers so I could reduce the amount of hay they are consuming. These heifers are due at the end of March so about 40 days. I have them on a lower quality grass hay (don't ask me to prove that, it is some hay that does not contain as much clover). These two are very well conditioned, I would guess at 7. My goal is controlling both quantity and quality.

PS: I have also put two cows in the birthing area. They are due in the next 10 days. I feed them one small square bale of hay per day, thus, half a bale per head. I throw a couple small wedges of alfalfa hay in on occasion. One of these cows is the cow in my previous post on "Cow Due" that you commented on. The other cow is a big cow (Skunk Tail).

I am running out of places to separate cattle.

The pics you post seem to show that most of your cattle are a bit over conditioned anyway. Probably just good grass and maybe too many "treats". That last 30-60 days is probably even more crucial than the previous 200+ in determining the what to expect from the cow and the calf. You're asking her to nourish the developing unborn calf because it triples in weight during the last 3 months of gestation, maintain body condition to promote normal calving (weak cows produce weak calves or NO calves), she si going to be expected to produce enough milk to grow the calf and she's expected to breed back between the 1st and 2nd cycle post calving. Assuming your hay, grazing or whatever has adequate nutritional values you're ok, but poor quality grazing and/or hay needs supplementation and seldom causes problems with calving. Most calving problems can be traced back to something else besides a bit of extra feed in late pregnancy.

TB, thanks. I observe at least two schools of thought on the concept of proper feeding of bred heifers. Some here would tell you give them nothing but water and air and then pray they can deliver a calf without an emergency response team. The other school follows your prescription that to ask a heifer to do all we expect of her, she needs proper nutrition. Your statement that "Most calving problems can be traced back to something else besides a bit of extra feed in late pregnancy." is where the two camps diverge. I will stick my neck out and say I agree. Poor selection of sires, bad management, improper nutrition, etc are all possibilities. I have built my herd in the past four years on the purchase of bred heifers and praise The Lord, I have only lost one calf and that was from one of the oldest cows I have. And you are correct TB, I over indulge my girls with treats. Knock on wood, I hope I am not asking for a train wreck but I think there is an over-statement that calving problems is due to improper feeding practices. Nevertheless, I welcome opposing input!

 

[TexasBred]

And you are correct TB, I over indulge my girls with treats. Knock on wood, I hope I am not asking for a train wreck but I think there is an over-statement that calving problems is due to improper feeding practices. Nevertheless, I welcome opposing input!

And as the old saying goes "sometimes shyt just happens". I am not going to starve a cow to save a few bucks especially during a period when they need it the most. Heck even women don't starve themselves during pregnancy but consume enough of the proper foods to do for the baby exactly what the cow has to do with hers. Too many don't know the difference between adequate and excess. Guess that's a matter of opinion as well. :lol2:

 

[inyati13]

And you are correct TB, I over indulge my girls with treats. Knock on wood, I hope I am not asking for a train wreck but I think there is an over-statement that calving problems is due to improper feeding practices. Nevertheless, I welcome opposing input!

And as the old saying goes "sometimes shyt just happens". I am not going to starve a cow to save a few bucks especially during a period when they need it the most. Heck even women don't starve themselves during pregnancy but consume enough of the proper foods to do for the baby exactly what the cow has to do with hers. Too many don't know the difference between adequate and excess. Guess that's a matter of opinion as well. :lol2:

I agree. Thanks, TB.

 

[tsmaxx47]

greg, I have always fed cows up to term. I have always felt that most problems are inherent in the cow (or bull) and not as much in the amount of feed. that being said, I do cut the would-be mothers back to about half ration at 7 months. I don't want them to look like they've spent time on a feed lot either. to me the feed (which includes mineral) has got to have a beneficial effect on the development of the fetus.....(our cows and heifers are all bred for springtime delivery)

 

[greybeard]

Heck even women don't starve themselves during pregnancy but consume enough of the proper foods to do for the baby exactly what the cow has to do with hers. Too many don't know the difference between adequate and excess. Guess that's a matter of opinion as well. :lol2:

Yeah, because sooo many women give birth at home, naturally, and unassisted.
Not a good analogy at all.
Go ahead--reach for the last drumstick on the platter with a pregnant woman at the table--you'll wind up with a fork stuck in the top of your hand...

 

[inyati13]

Heck even women don't starve themselves during pregnancy but consume enough of the proper foods to do for the baby exactly what the cow has to do with hers. Too many don't know the difference between adequate and excess. Guess that's a matter of opinion as well. :lol2:

Yeah, because sooo many women give birth at home, naturally, and unassisted.
Not a good analogy at all.
Go ahead--reach for the last drumstick on the platter with a pregnant woman at the table--you'll wind up with a fork stuck in the top of your hand...

:lol: Go for it, girl! Like quick draw in a gun fight. I never was one who seen the logic in walking out in the street and seeing who could pull their gun out the fastest and shoot. If I had cause to shoot someone, I would rather do it from behind a rock. Kinda like William Munny did in Unforgiven. :nod:

 

[inyati13]

greg, I have always fed cows up to term. I have always felt that most problems are inherent in the cow (or bull) and not as much in the amount of feed. that being said, I do cut the would-be mothers back to about half ration at 7 months. I don't want them to look like they've spent time on a feed lot either. to me the feed (which includes mineral) has got to have a beneficial effect on the development of the fetus.....(our cows and heifers are all bred for springtime delivery)

Another vote for calving problems having a source other than feeding. I am selectively feeding my heifers that are due in March but continue to give them minerals and enough nutrition to maintain good health. One thing I have going is that they are mostly AI'd to Top Hand which is a CE bull. The others are bred to an angus bull that has not produced any big calves yet.