Favorite Hereford Bull, past 20 years

[Herefords.US]

I'm glad to see there is starting to be an emphasis by some to moderate their cow size. Just be careful not to go too far.

Moderation of cow size. How far would you consider being "too far"?

George

Under 5

Mill Creek sold a King Ten son in their last sale. I was the runner-up bidder on him and I have thought a lot about the bull since. He's probably the only bull alive that traces to 100% Ferry Carpenter breeding.

My rerservation on him was that he was under a Frame Score 5.

Heres a picture:

Here's his pedigree:

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-b...56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5A5D5C24592123242E&9=5F5D50

Mill Creek collected him and has some semen for sale. What do you think?

George

 

[I luv herfrds]

I e-mailed Mill Creek about getting some semen from 595. Have a couple of heifers I would love to see what they would throw from him.
Both heifers have MC Ranger 9615 on one side. One has Remitall Online 122L the other has Anchor 29L.
Yes I know it is a mixing of both horned and polled.

 

[Elder Statesman]

I'm glad to see there is starting to be an emphasis by some to moderate their cow size. Just be careful not to go too far.

Moderation of cow size. How far would you consider being "too far"?

George

Under 5

Mill Creek sold a King Ten son in their last sale. I was the runner-up bidder on him and I have thought a lot about the bull since. He's probably the only bull alive that traces to 100% Ferry Carpenter breeding.

My rerservation on him was that he was under a Frame Score 5.

Heres a picture:

Here's his pedigree:

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-b...56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5A5D5C24592123242E&9=5F5D50

Mill Creek collected him and has some semen for sale. What do you think?

George

He looks like he has some natural thickness to him and a good quarter. If you were turning him out on some commercial cows I wouldn't worry so much about the frame. On registered cows, he might work on some that are at a 6.
Didn't he go to Turner's in Neb?

 

[Herefords.US]

He looks like he has some natural thickness to him and a good quarter. If you were turning him out on some commercial cows I wouldn't worry so much about the frame. On registered cows, he might work on some that are at a 6.
Didn't he go to Turner's in Neb?

Yes, Lawrence Turner.

If I had bought him, he would have been my heifer and clean-up bull - and would have had a couple FS 7 cows to handle.

 

[Elder Statesman]

He looks like he has some natural thickness to him and a good quarter. If you were turning him out on some commercial cows I wouldn't worry so much about the frame. On registered cows, he might work on some that are at a 6.
Didn't he go to Turner's in Neb?

Yes, Lawrence Turner.

If I had bought him, he would have been my heifer and clean-up bull - and would have had a couple FS 7 cows to handle.

He probably would have worked well for you. It is hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like he needed to be a little smoother thru the shoulders. But it might just be the picture. Didn't he bring somewhere around $3600?

 

[Herefords.US]

I e-mailed Mill Creek about getting some semen from 595. Have a couple of heifers I would love to see what they would throw from him.
Both heifers have MC Ranger 9615 on one side. One has Remitall Online 122L the other has Anchor 29L.
Yes I know it is a mixing of both horned and polled.

Nothing wrong with mixing them - although you'll see a few in both camps that really dislike it.

My dislike of dehorning, coupled with my angst about this IE problem and whether a DNA test would be available anytime soon for it, led me over to the "dark side", as Knersie put it, and I bought a polled bull in the recent Star Lake sale, a Pounder son.

George

 

[Herefords.US]

He looks like he has some natural thickness to him and a good quarter. If you were turning him out on some commercial cows I wouldn't worry so much about the frame. On registered cows, he might work on some that are at a 6.
Didn't he go to Turner's in Neb?

Yes, Lawrence Turner.

If I had bought him, he would have been my heifer and clean-up bull - and would have had a couple FS 7 cows to handle.

He probably would have worked well for you. It is hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like he needed to be a little smoother thru the shoulders. But it might just be the picture. Didn't he bring somewhere around $3600?

$3100 or $3200, I think. My limit was $3000, but if a competing bidder gets that bid, I'll always bid one increment higher, in case that was his limit also.

George

 

[Herefords.US]

What is your opinion of Ferry Carpenter bred cattle? And in particular, the bull King Ten and his son DR Achiever 8403?

George

Definitely some good carcass cattle. I think the man was ahead of his time. Moderate sized cattle that would work in a lot of environments.

Regarding Ferry Carpenter(Farrington R. Carpenter), if you haven't already read it, get a copy of his autobiography, "Confessions of a Maverick", and read it.

It's got a little Hereford cattle stuff in it, but it's mainly about his life in rural Colorado and as a public servant. Really entertaining and it gives a lot of insight to how life was back then.

George

Edited to add:

If anyone wants a snippet to see if the book might interest them, here is the transcript of an interview with Carpenter from 1971:

http://www.rangebiome.org/genesis/interviewfrc.html

 

[THG]

I bet his calves will be thick and dress out well on the rail.

THG

 

[Fester]

What lines are carrying the IE gene?

 

[DFF]

Amen to that on both ends of the spectrum. I'm glad to see there is starting to be an emphasis by some to moderate their cow size. Just be careful not to go too far.

What is your opinion of Ferry Carpenter bred cattle? And in particular, the bull King Ten and his son DR Achiever 8403?

George

Definitely some good carcass cattle. I think the man was ahead of his time. Moderate sized cattle that would work in a lot of environments. With King Ten, need to keep an eye on the udders, as you do with a lot of the older bloodlines. However, from what I have seen, it looks like Achiever helped clean up that problem. Achiever produced some good milking, long producing daughters. I would like to have a little more of those genetics in my herd. Have you used any of those genetics?

Mr. Statesman private message me if you would about an achiever Son. thanks Larry

 

[THG]

You know, it is amazing to me that the Felton name is still as strong of a bloodline as Remitalls and Mohicans are presently today. I mean, Felton was dispersed and still the genetics are being used heavily. 517 is leading the polls and I can't believe my eyes. Online I thought would have caught fire and ran away with these polls, but he isn't even close to the votes 517 has. Also, I am amazed the P606 has 4 votes, some breeders on here from the past have stated that he has to big of a BW and CED. But P606, 774, and 20X, all have 4 votes, tied for 2.

I want to give just a few comments on all ot these bulls:

Remitall Keynote 20X: daughters were most of the time great uddered, some were a tad bit sloppy, but for the most part, good uddered females. The bulls were solid, thick, big topped and full of meat. His faults, big BW and calving ease was his down fall. A live 20X calf is worth some big money, if you can get one without calving problems.

BAR JZ Tradition 434V: Daughters were for the most superior and milked well. I never cared for his sons, testicles were never big enough in circumference.

Feltons 517: Daughters were good milkers, not big framed cows, but just right. Sons were ok, but nothing to get excited about, except World Class, but he had an awesome momma behind him.

Remitall Boomer 46B: BIG BULL! His daughters for the Mohican cowherd are super, some had bad udders, but for the most part, superior. Mohicans built a cowherd around 46B. 46B sons are also great bulls with great thickness, stout, great depth of body, and big tops with big testicles. Down fall to 46B, BW and CE problems.

Feltons Domino 774: Has done a great job for the Knoll Crest Farm cowherd. He is siring great carcass cattle and his daughters for the most part milk very well. Some of his daughters have had sloppy udders, but for the most part, ok. His down fall is that he is very white and very little pigment. He is the ugliest bull I have ever seen before.

Remitall Online 122L: Daughters have great udders and milk well. Sons are stout, thick, and impressive. His down fall is about the testicle problem that he had, but other than that, super bull.

NJW 1Y Wrangler 19D: Loved his sire 832W. His dam was ok, but not explosive. 19D to me wasn't explosive either, some were impressive though. Some of his daughters, not all of them had bad udders and the sons weren't overly thick, but not bad on the eyes. His sons and daughters would have done in a pinch. 19D was the type of bull that needed to be mated up to a very powerful cow to get great results.

PW Victore Boomer P606: Darn good bull here. Darn good milking daughters. Daughters to me are the best milking cows in the breed and I haven't seen a bad uddered cow yet. BUt his sons aren't over thick and not very impressive. I think his full brother Nasdaq is more impressive than P606.

THG

 

[THG]

May I ask, since 434V doesn't have any votes, why no one likes 434V? I mean, Mohicans have sold some very impressive daughters out of him, most of them were donor material I thought. Just that those bulls he has sired weren't much on scrotal circumference, but I loved his daughters, really good daughters.

THG

 

[KNERSIE]

What lines are carrying the IE gene?

I avoided answering because I am no expert on horned bloodlines, but if I understood correctly the Line 1's are where it originated.

Ned Jr. breeds line 1 cattle, pm him I am sure he will know more than the rest of us.

 

[KNERSIE]

I e-mailed Mill Creek about getting some semen from 595. Have a couple of heifers I would love to see what they would throw from him.
Both heifers have MC Ranger 9615 on one side. One has Remitall Online 122L the other has Anchor 29L.
Yes I know it is a mixing of both horned and polled.

Nothing wrong with mixing them - although you'll see a few in both camps that really dislike it.

My dislike of dehorning, coupled with my angst about this IE problem and whether a DNA test would be available anytime soon for it, led me over to the "dark side", as Knersie put it, and I bought a polled bull in the recent Star Lake sale, a Pounder son.

George

George, I agree with you that dehorning takes the fun out of cattle breeding.

Besides that I struggle to sell horned bulls in my area, its mostly smaller farms where beef cattle is a sideline and the less work involved the better for fruit and wine farmers who haven't got time to spend their days dehorning.

All that being said I have a love for the old traditional herefords and would love to have a small herd of Anxiety cattle to see if I can improve such an old line, but when it comes to business you've got to breed what the market demands and where I am it's polled bulls.

So I guess I will stay on the "dark side" for now

 

[txag]

What lines are carrying the IE gene?

I avoided answering because I am no expert on horned bloodlines, but if I understood correctly the Line 1's are where it originated.

Ned Jr. breeds line 1 cattle, pm him I am sure he will know more than the rest of us.

There's now a list of confirmed carriers on the AHA site. I'm pretty certain we'll be seeing more added:

http://www.hereford.org/AHA/tabID__3855/tailored.aspx

 

[Herefords.US]

What lines are carrying the IE gene?

I avoided answering because I am no expert on horned bloodlines, but if I understood correctly the Line 1's are where it originated.

Ned Jr. breeds line 1 cattle, pm him I am sure he will know more than the rest of us.

There's now a list of confirmed carriers on the AHA site. I'm pretty certain we'll be seeing more added:

http://www.hereford.org/AHA/tabID__3855/tailored.aspx

If what I've been told by several Line 1 breeders is correct, they(the scientists working on this) believe the recessive gene originates from HH Advance P242. This bull was born in 1982.

P242 appears in the pedigrees of a lot of Hereford cattle, both polled and horned. The common ancestor that I see in looking at the confirmed carrier's pedigrees is HH Advance 9012Y, whose maternal grandsire is P242. 9012Y was a great bull and he was widely used - but I'd bet that he is a carrier from what I've been told.

However, since the IE gene is a simple recessive, 50% of a carrier's offspring will be free of the genetic disorder. With each successive generation the likelihood of passing on the gene is reduced by another 50%. So there are a lot of "clean" 9012Y (and P242) descendents out there.

And there are a LOT of line 1 cattle that don't have P242 in their pedigree at all.

Hopefully, they will get the DNA test for the disorder perfected soon. Once that happens, this will be quickly cleaned up and should be eliminated because most of the Line 1 breeders don't want this disorder to taint what is otherwise a tremendous bloodline of Hereford cattle that have added so much to the Hereford breed.

George

 

[Elder Statesman]

Regarding Ferry Carpenter(Farrington R. Carpenter), if you haven't already read it, get a copy of his autobiography, "Confessions of a Maverick", and read it.

It's got a little Hereford cattle stuff in it, but it's mainly about his life in rural Colorado and as a public servant. Really entertaining and it gives a lot of insight to how life was back then.

George

Edited to add:

If anyone wants a snippet to see if the book might interest them, here is the transcript of an interview with Carpenter from 1971:

http://www.rangebiome.org/genesis/interviewfrc.html

From what I have heard and read about the man, he was a great intellectual. I have not seen the book but have heard of it. Thanks for the website.

 

[I luv herfrds]

Both these heifers have polled and horned in their papers. Even though some guys would just go crazy over that, I think they both got the best of both sides.
We normally just raise horned and dehorn them at birth.
I've seen bulls and cows from both polled and horned breeders and I liked them both.
I can hardly wait til they calve since they were bred to a Ribstone bull.

Been talking to the husband about when we get our numbers up to 70+ head we need to go to Largents and get a Golden Achiever son. Maybe in about 2 years or so.

I keep learning so much from you guys. I enjoy the posts.

 

[1848]

May I ask, since 434V doesn't have any votes, why no one likes 434V? I mean, Mohicans have sold some very impressive daughters out of him, most of them were donor material I thought. Just that those bulls he has sired weren't much on scrotal circumference, but I loved his daughters, really good daughters.

THG

Maybe you should answer why you considered him for this list?

Apparently you are the one who feels differently about him and everyone else is the same?...