Farm Subsidies.

[fenceman]

We pay sales tax on our leased and rental properties every month to the state. And then we pay income tax to the government quarterly.
Fenceman, we fill out an expense report, a discard report, a catch report and log books every month for our fishing business. And it's only my son and myself on the boat. What right does the government have to make us tell them how much we spend and make per trip? And when I told them to pound sand, they took my permits away. The government works for the rich and the deadbeats and freeloaders, and I don't qualify for either group.

We agree on this one Highgrit, your expense, sales and profit should be no one's business but your on .
I might could see reporting your catch, for fisheries management, but that has turned into a joke in Texas ,with Texas park s and wildlifes team of mad scientist.

 

[Hondac]

Flat tax doesn't work for the freeloaders on the government tit.
I want them to pay as well.

National sales tax is the fairest way, more you spend the more you pay.

Agree 100 %. Only way to avoid paying taxes is to not spend money. How much tax revenue
are we collecting from drug dealers now? I would guess zero. A sales tax would tax their
windfall profits when they buy their boats, cars, mansions, etc..

 

[fenceman]

Flat tax doesn't work for the freeloaders on the government tit.
I want them to pay as well.

National sales tax is the fairest way, more you spend the more you pay.

Agree 100 %. Only way to avoid paying taxes is to not spend money. How much tax revenue
are we collecting from drug dealers now? I would guess zero. A sales tax would tax their
windfall profits when they buy their boats, cars, mansions, etc..

I'm going to speculate that most drug dealers with cars boats and mansions would pay their flat rate tax. They would be fool's not to.

 

[kerley]

We need to go to a flat tax and be done with it.

You know, the employer has to match your taxes they have to deduct from your check but when you get a refund your employer doesn't get anything back. So in some cases, some people actually pay nothing in taxes because their taxes are given back but the employer's portion is kept. Is that fair?

Jo, I was in business for near fourty years and only remember paying matching employees Social Security and paying all the Workers Comp. Did I miss something, are we on the same page?

 

[ChrisB]

I think there is some confusion on ones definition of what a flat tax is. I believe Fenceman is thinking it would be a set amount, say $3000 per person per year. Where as others are thinking it is a set percentage of income, say 10% for everyone; rich pay 10% and poor pay 10%.

That being said, I agree with CB that a sales tax would be the most fair. Any type of tax on income is too complex with all different deductions people and businesses take trying to show smaller profits. A sales tax would essentially eliminate the IRS wouldn't it?

 

[fenceman]

I think there is some confusion on ones definition of what a flat tax is. I believe Fenceman is thinking it would be a set amount, say $3000 per person per year. Where as others are thinking it is a set percentage of income, say 10% for everyone; rich pay 10% and poor pay 10%.

That being said, I agree with CB that a sales tax would be the most fair. Any type of tax on income is too complex with all different deductions people and businesses take trying to show smaller profits. A sales tax would essentially eliminate the IRS wouldn't it?

You got my opinion spot on Chris. Everyone's ticket cost the same.
I don't like sales tax because you are forcing business owners to be tax collectors. Now if you figure in some sort of credit for them maybe.
Any one who thinks there is no way around the sells tax is not thinking.
People make cash deals under the table every day. This along with trading services to beat the tax will run rampant.
With a set tax attached to your ss# it can't be beat. There's not even any dam math involved. They know exactly who didn't pay. The whole thing could be run through the post office. They could use the work.

 

[Bestoutwest]

I think there is some confusion on ones definition of what a flat tax is. I believe Fenceman is thinking it would be a set amount, say $3000 per person per year. Where as others are thinking it is a set percentage of income, say 10% for everyone; rich pay 10% and poor pay 10%.

That being said, I agree with CB that a sales tax would be the most fair. Any type of tax on income is too complex with all different deductions people and businesses take trying to show smaller profits. A sales tax would essentially eliminate the IRS wouldn't it?

You got my opinion spot on Chris. Everyone's ticket cost the same.

How is this system fair? Let's take the $3,000 threshold:
For a guy that makes $30,000/yr that's 10% of his income.
For a guy making $100,000/yr that's 3%
For a guy making $1,000,000/yr that's 0.3%

This totally screws the majority of us and shelters the rich. :bang: I'm not saying we need to tax the h3ll out of everyone like they do in Canada (I paid 24% in Quebec City once b/c of the nation, provincial and city taxes), but a flat rate is a horrible idea. I like a flat rate AND a sales tax. You want to save money, don't buy as much crap that you don't need.

And sorry, Fence, you don't want to collect taxes then go work for someone else like the rest of us schmucks. I'd love the freedom of owning my own business but I'd hate to do all the book keeping that goes with it. It's a nightmare and I sympathize with anyone that has to do it.

 

[fenceman]

I think there is some confusion on ones definition of what a flat tax is. I believe Fenceman is thinking it would be a set amount, say $3000 per person per year. Where as others are thinking it is a set percentage of income, say 10% for everyone; rich pay 10% and poor pay 10%.

That being said, I agree with CB that a sales tax would be the most fair. Any type of tax on income is too complex with all different deductions people and businesses take trying to show smaller profits. A sales tax would essentially eliminate the IRS wouldn't it?

You got my opinion spot on Chris. Everyone's ticket cost the same.

How is this system fair? Let's take the $3,000 threshold:
For a guy that makes $30,000/yr that's 10% of his income.
For a guy making $100,000/yr that's 3%
For a guy making $1,000,000/yr that's 0.3%

This totally screws the majority of us and shelters the rich. :bang: I'm not saying we need to tax the h3ll out of everyone like they do in Canada (I paid 24% in Quebec City once b/c of the nation, provincial and city taxes), but a flat rate is a horrible idea. I like a flat rate AND a sales tax. You want to save money, don't buy as much crap that you don't need.

And sorry, Fence, you don't want to collect taxes then go work for someone else like the rest of us schmucks. I'd love the freedom of owning my own business but I'd hate to do all the book keeping that goes with it. It's a nightmare and I sympathize with anyone that has to do it.

Your wrong, my way is absolutely fair. You want to tax someone for being more successful than someone else.
So should the guy with more, pay more for a stamp, a car , a bag of groceries.
Were all in the same card game, ante up, it's the same for everyone. That's fair

And trust me I'm a long long way from rich.

 

[highgrit]

Fenceman, your way is not the right way. IMO And there's no way that it can or will work. Some folks like kids and older folks on Social Security would end up with nothing. And the deadbeats and freeloaders would have to get government subsidies just to pay their 3k dollars. I like the sales tax deal the best, all the businesses are collecting sales tax for the states already so I don't see a problem there. Just think of how much money the illegals, dopers, tourist, and students from other countries would pay into our system. After all they are using all our resources and paying no taxes. The other way that would be better than what we have now is a flat 10% tax rate on what your gross income is. But then the drug dealers, freeloaders, deadbeats, illegals, and tourists would still pay nothing.

 

[TexasBred]

You can use any of these systems..they all have good points.....but the minute you give one exemption to anyone for anything your new system has begun a downward spiral. In 100 years you'll have 100,000 regulations again along with 100,000 different deductions for different things just like we have now. Let the old folks keep drawing their social security. most of them are living on that alone anyway....let the freeloaders get a dam job. Tax everyone ONLY on what they spend and give no exemptions on that either....everything including food is subject to the sales tax. There would be no burden on businesses as most are already collecting it. They'll simply collect more now and they get the use of that money until it has to be remitted to the treasury. True some will find ways to get around it on some things like trading, paying cash and bartering but the savings in cost of operations will offset that small loss.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I think there is some confusion on ones definition of what a flat tax is. I believe Fenceman is thinking it would be a set amount, say $3000 per person per year. Where as others are thinking it is a set percentage of income, say 10% for everyone; rich pay 10% and poor pay 10%.

That being said, I agree with CB that a sales tax would be the most fair. Any type of tax on income is too complex with all different deductions people and businesses take trying to show smaller profits. A sales tax would essentially eliminate the IRS wouldn't it?

You got my opinion spot on Chris. Everyone's ticket cost the same.
I don't like sales tax because you are forcing business owners to be tax collectors. Now if you figure in some sort of credit for them maybe.
Any one who thinks there is no way around the sells tax is not thinking.
People make cash deals under the table every day. This along with trading services to beat the tax will run rampant.
With a set tax attached to your ss# it can't be beat. There's not even any dam math involved. They know exactly who didn't pay. The whole thing could be run through the post office. They could use the work.

Using SS numbers would screw the system up more than it is today
you assume people are working.

National Sales Tax of 5% the hogs in Washington would go crazy with that kind of cash flow.
No matter who you are in this world today not one in a million can do only cash transactions.
Sooner or later that dollar will get spent and taxed.
You are taxing the dollar unless you can stuff it in a mason jar or bank it will get spent and taxed.

 

[fenceman]

One in a million seems exaggerated

 

[Caustic Burno]

One in a million seems exaggerated

That is the point you might do one two or three cash transactions you still will spend that
dollar sooner or later and it will get taxed. It won't get to hide forever as many do today.
All illegals, tourist, welfare recipients, pimp's, drug heads no matter will get their dollar taxed
buying boos or smokes if nothing else after they purchase their under armor and nikes.

 

[fenceman]

To everyone respectfully.
The moment you say that someone above you in financial status should carry more of a burden than you....
You instantly become the person below you , pointing at you. :tiphat:

 

[highgrit]

I don't mind paying taxes myself. I just hate the way our leaders waste or tax dollars. But those folks that use our resources and pay nothing pizzed me off. And the folks that write their boats, jets, and helicopters off and pay no more than I do pizzed me off also. The more stuff you have the bigger your footprint is. I don't need that big public marina or a nice fancy airport.

 

[Caustic Burno]

What most don't get is if Trump buys stock he pays 5% not just move from one account to another never paying
a cent as he has never cashed out and has no capital gains or it is hid in trust.
It also gets the welfare recipient living in free housing spending our tax dollars at Wally World.
The business collecting taxes could actually make money off interest on the tax dollars until they
are due.
A sales tax leaves nowhere for a dollar to hide forever as the current system.

 

[bball]

Flat tax doesn't work for the freeloaders on the government tit.
I want them to pay as well.

National sales tax is the fairest way, more you spend the more you pay.

That's what I consider a 'flat tax'. Completely agree with natl sales tax. You play, you pay. period.

 

[bbirder]

National Sales Tax
How many of you think that all businesses report 100% of their sales and remit the taxes? The poor and middle class will pay the tax and the rich and drug dealers will have a business in their control to pass thru w/o tax. Any small business owner on here wants to publicly state they have never skimmed? Money talks and :bs: walks! JMHO.
It all sounds good, but let's face it, our politicians have put us where we are for their benefit and the lobbyists who donate huge sums to them. I'm not sure the tax code will ever get smaller or change, no matter what the politicians promise. They do this at each election cycle. :2cents:
Think about the "illegal" or "legal", depending on your thoughts, immigrants with cash businesses when you read this. Convenience stores, motels, flea market, etc. But, that is another whole story for another day. :deadhorse:

 

[Caustic Burno]

National Sales Tax
How many of you think that all businesses report 100% of their sales and remit the taxes? The poor and middle class will pay the tax and the rich and drug dealers will have a business in their control to pass thru w/o tax. Any small business owner on here wants to publicly state they have never skimmed? Money talks and :bs: walks! JMHO.
It all sounds good, but let's face it, our politicians have put us where we are for their benefit and the lobbyists who donate huge sums to them. I'm not sure the tax code will ever get smaller or change, no matter what the politicians promise. They do this at each election cycle. :2cents:
Think about the "illegal" or "legal", depending on your thoughts, immigrants with cash businesses when you read this. Convenience stores, motels, flea market, etc. But, that is another whole story for another day. :deadhorse:

That dollar will still get taxed somewhere.
Even the crooked business owner will buy something sooner or later.
Those illegals work Wally World over here.
Those dollars wont sit in a Folgers coffee can buried in the back yard you can bet on that.

 

[bball]

National Sales Tax
How many of you think that all businesses report 100% of their sales and remit the taxes? The poor and middle class will pay the tax and the rich and drug dealers will have a business in their control to pass thru w/o tax. Any small business owner on here wants to publicly state they have never skimmed? Money talks and :bs: walks! JMHO.
It all sounds good, but let's face it, our politicians have put us where we are for their benefit and the lobbyists who donate huge sums to them. I'm not sure the tax code will ever get smaller or change, no matter what the politicians promise. They do this at each election cycle. :2cents:
Think about the "illegal" or "legal", depending on your thoughts, immigrants with cash businesses when you read this. Convenience stores, motels, flea market, etc. But, that is another whole story for another day. :deadhorse:

That dollar will still get taxed somewhere.
Even the crooked business owner will buy something sooner or later.
Those illegals work Wally World over here.
Those dollars wont sit in a Folgers coffee can buried in the back yard you can bet on that.

Or stay protected in massive tax shelters and trusts.. and I think fence is onto something.. give those businesses that collect sales taxes a stipend for collecting that money..afterall, we are eliminating the IRS, or atleast a large portion of its bureaucracy. Share that money with the guys collecting the sales taxes. CB is right, no matter what, sooner or later, that dollar is getting spent legitimately.