Fall workup, weaning and culling. Good feeling to be done

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SRBeef

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Finally got the fall weaning, workup (shots, pour, preg check) done yesterday (Monday 11/15) after being postponed a couple times due to weather etc. Looks like we had a 1-day break in the weather to get it done.

I make a little checklist ahead of time for my vet and I to use as to what is to be done to each animal coming through the alley and chute. It can be hard to keep track and easy to make a mistake in the heat of the moment in the corral. So Sunday afternoon I started my checklist.

It struck me that the checklist was getting longer and maybe I had better do some thinking. I took my last weights (from mid Oct) totalled them up x 3% x the number of days I am likely to be feeding hay and was surprised to find that even with all the hay I bought and wrapped this summer and allowing a factor for the steers grazing corn, I am likely to run short of hay by spring greenup!

It was obvious I need to cull. I also went out to the pasture to check on them and with the calves getting bigger (700-800 lb calves don't look as much like little calves any more!) and everybody in the smaller corral pasture ahead of workup, there even LOOKED like a LOT of beef in that small field. And a lot of hay consumption per day, just like the calculations showed.

It took a couple bags of sweet feed and a bit of extra work due to a couple new registered heifers I bought recently not understanding the corral drill, but I got them all in the corral about 10 minutes ahead of vet arrival.

So at the end of the day I was pleased. 100% pregnant (thanks to T21*), everybody weighed, new rfid eartags, with shots and pour-on and on the correct sides of the weaning fence. And my three largest cows still in the corral.

My vet is a master at getting the right animals in my sorting areas and tub with minimal fuss. He walks right through the herd without getting them riled up. I end up being mostly the sliding gate guy, tag hander and scale operator.

Vet said goodbye, I went and hooked up the trailer, backed up to the loadout ramp and to my great surprise the three large cows went right through the alley and chute again and right on the trailer. No hours long wait, lawn chair and beer (dang it I was thirsty!) like loading my bull a few months ago.

Took them down to Bloomington WI Livestock Exchange where they are having both a slaughter cow sale and a bred cow sale this week and felt a real relief coming back with the trailer empty, fall working done and hopefully everyone still on the correct side of the fence!

I was going to try to take some pictures through the day but somehow that gets lost in the work at hand. A good feeling to be done until spring, hopefully.

By the way I would strongly recommend the Bloomington Livestock Exchange as a place to do business for anyone within driving distance. I think this is the way the cattle business should be run both on the seller and the buyer side of the transactions. They seem to have the trust and respect of both sides.

Proof of that is the incredible number of trailers on the road coming and going from that place. I saw license plates from WI, MN & IA while I unloaded. They serve the guy like me with 3 head in the trailer just like they do the guy with the pot load trailer. They do some volume and I get the feeling they are very concerned about quality also.

The three cows culled totaled about 5200 lb x 3% x 150 days = 23,400 lb of hay saved or about 16 1500 lb bales! Culling them now also avoid the wrenching decisions in the spring on whether or not to keep their good looking heifers, who will also probably turn out to be mega sized cows.

A long day but a very good feeling at the end of it. Then it was time for that beer! FWIW.

Jim

* - On the 100% pregnant, I think there is a benefit to the SC measurement and EPD (ref other thread). But as a beginner I can't make a theoretical case for it, just experience.
 
I know you feel like a beginner; however we all see that you know what you are doing!
 
ANAZAZI":iwypt4fb said:
I know you feel like a beginner; however we all see that you know what you are doingi!

I am learning and have some good teachers. There is always more to learn about raising cattle. Thank you for the kind words. Jim
 
Every one of your posts makes me jealous. I try to do everything correctly and keep up with maintenance, mowing, culling, etc, and I cant seem to find the time to do it all....I am behind in all of my maintenance (and as a result I have a tractor that is going to need work beyond my abilities) and I have still not pulled off my calves to sell for this year. You would think I could find the time to do the part that makes the money, but as of yet, I have been busy trying to do all the things that HAVE to be done....Because I am always short on time I never have the time to do the things that save me time - like working the cattle, and selling the calves at the same time....

Your posts are almost always done the way I wish I could do everything! Keep up the good work...as a fellow beginner, you make me want to make more time. I am going to just Make time. To heck with the day job. I dont like it anyway!
 
marksmu":2m7m8511 said:
Every one of your posts makes me jealous. I try to do everything correctly and keep up with maintenance, mowing, culling, etc, and I cant seem to find the time to do it all....I am behind in all of my maintenance (and as a result I have a tractor that is going to need work beyond my abilities) and I have still not pulled off my calves to sell for this year. You would think I could find the time to do the part that makes the money, but as of yet, I have been busy trying to do all the things that HAVE to be done....Because I am always short on time I never have the time to do the things that save me time - like working the cattle, and selling the calves at the same time....

Your posts are almost always done the way I wish I could do everything! Keep up the good work...as a fellow beginner, you make me want to make more time. I am going to just Make time. To heck with the day job. I dont like it anyway!

I know the feeling Mark - more to get done than you can possibly do. This is especially true in the north with winter and its frozen ground, heated waterers, feeding hay, and ice and snow staring us in the face. If there is one key to staying sane and still enjoying this business it is getting your facilities up to snuff.

Fences, fence layout, watering points and most of all a good, well designed, properly located working facility make life a lot easier and more fun. And safer. This requires some initial investment of dollars and labor. But in the end and over time I think there will be a substantial return on that investment. It also helps when I have good neighbors and good vet to help teach me. There is also just experience. And hard work.

One thing about the day job though that might help - maybe think of it as the means to an end and providing the initial investment that can make you less dependent on it in the future.

Thank you for the kinds words. Best of luck to you.

Jim
 
Just wondering if any of your weaned calves get dehydrated or impacted after you take them off the cow? I have a 700lb angusx weanling that seems to have a belly-ache 4 days after coming off the cow and being fed dry hay.plenty of water available and he is peeing so thats not the problem, but he's kicking at his belly and switching his tail. am observing til morning then may take him to the vet for some mineral oil - unless anyone knows how to get it into him of his own accord? would he lick it from a pail if i flavored it with molasses?
 
smokyj1919":28siggl6 said:
Just wondering if any of your weaned calves get dehydrated or impacted after you take them off the cow? I have a 700lb angusx weanling that seems to have a belly-ache 4 days after coming off the cow and being fed dry hay.plenty of water available and he is peeing so thats not the problem, but he's kicking at his belly and switching his tail. am observing til morning then may take him to the vet for some mineral oil - unless anyone knows how to get it into him of his own accord? would he lick it from a pail if i flavored it with molasses?

Why don' t you post this on the health and Nutrition forum
 
smokyj1919":1ffvj4yv said:
Just wondering if any of your weaned calves get dehydrated or impacted after you take them off the cow? I have a 700lb angusx weanling that seems to have a belly-ache 4 days after coming off the cow and being fed dry hay.plenty of water available and he is peeing so thats not the problem, but he's kicking at his belly and switching his tail. am observing til morning then may take him to the vet for some mineral oil - unless anyone knows how to get it into him of his own accord? would he lick it from a pail if i flavored it with molasses?

Mine are now 2 weeks after weaning. I have seen one or two steer calves kicking their bellies occasionally but nothing unusual or to worry about in my opinion. As long as they are active, eating hay and drinking water, urinating and the manure piles look ok I wouldn't worry about it. I think the rumen is just transitioning from mama's milk to 100% forage. This is why I do not start them on grazing corn until about 6-8 weeks after weaning. Maybe I am wrong but this is just my beginner's experience. Jim
 
SR I am convinced you need a blog. Also are there any pictures out and about that I might have missed of your new bull?
 
Jim - "we" finally got our cowherd work up done. Calves got weaned back in Sept & they all got their 3rd set of shots - but the cows have been out grazing and we just brought them back to main farm on Nov 23rd & started feeding hay. This was first chance to work them.
Dewormed & gave Lepto shot & divided adult cows from coming 2 & 3 year olds & another group of fall calving cows. They are all in their respective winter lots. Whew! and winter has arrived with a vengence. High winds and about a foot of snow with a couple more feet due the next few days. And we haven't finished "getting winterized".
Never ending!
 
SRBeef":3u65heq6 said:
smokyj1919":3u65heq6 said:
Just wondering if any of your weaned calves get dehydrated or impacted after you take them off the cow? I have a 700lb angusx weanling that seems to have a belly-ache 4 days after coming off the cow and being fed dry hay.plenty of water available and he is peeing so thats not the problem, but he's kicking at his belly and switching his tail. am observing til morning then may take him to the vet for some mineral oil - unless anyone knows how to get it into him of his own accord? would he lick it from a pail if i flavored it with molasses?

Mine are now 2 weeks after weaning. I have seen one or two steer calves kicking their bellies occasionally but nothing unusual or to worry about in my opinion. As long as they are active, eating hay and drinking water, urinating and the manure piles look ok I wouldn't worry about it. I think the rumen is just transitioning from mama's milk to 100% forage. This is why I do not start them on grazing corn until about 6-8 weeks after weaning. Maybe I am wrong but this is just my beginner's experience. Jim

Sr i have read that calves need time to develop their teeth before they can handle ear corn. I seem to remember around 700lb. Try to find the link

edit:Heavier, older cattle usually gain the most from corn grazing.

Retired Mississippi State University researcher Mike Boyd says cattle above 750 lbs. do best, especially as the corn matures. Lighter cattle seem to be less efficient at eating the ears, perhaps because their back teeth are less developed and they're poorer at shelling the corn
http://beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_grain_stump/
 
Douglas":1qhs37f0 said:
SRBeef":1qhs37f0 said:
smokyj1919":1qhs37f0 said:
Just wondering if any of your weaned calves get dehydrated or impacted after you take them off the cow? I have a 700lb angusx weanling that seems to have a belly-ache 4 days after coming off the cow and being fed dry hay.plenty of water available and he is peeing so thats not the problem, but he's kicking at his belly and switching his tail. am observing til morning then may take him to the vet for some mineral oil - unless anyone knows how to get it into him of his own accord? would he lick it from a pail if i flavored it with molasses?

Mine are now 2 weeks after weaning. I have seen one or two steer calves kicking their bellies occasionally but nothing unusual or to worry about in my opinion. As long as they are active, eating hay and drinking water, urinating and the manure piles look ok I wouldn't worry about it. I think the rumen is just transitioning from mama's milk to 100% forage. This is why I do not start them on grazing corn until about 6-8 weeks after weaning. Maybe I am wrong but this is just my beginner's experience. Jim

Sr i have read that calves need time to develop their teeth before they can handle ear corn. I seem to remember around 700lb. Try to find the link, but it is mostly about grazing green corn.

edit:

Heavier, older cattle usually gain the most from corn grazing.

Retired Mississippi State University researcher Mike Boyd says cattle above 750 lbs. do best, especially as the corn matures. Lighter cattle seem to be less efficient at eating the ears, perhaps because their back teeth are less developed and they're poorer at shelling the corn
http://beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_grain_stump/
 
Douglas, What a great article! Thank you for the link.

Most of the article seems to agree with my experience so far but not all. Some differences may be due to the differences between the corn seasons and yields, etc, in Mississippi and Wisconsin.

I got my groups shifted around yesterday so I am about ready to put my calves to be processed on unharvested ("grain on the stump") corn.

It is amazing how you can sort animals quietly by yourself one they get to like the sweet feed treat and associate it with a white bucket. Not as romantic as a cutting horse etc but a lot easier and lower stress.

My steers and non-keeper heifers going on corn will be right about 750 lb or more as suggested in the article when they hit the corn for the first time in a couple weeks.

I do think I can put at least 2.5 lb/day on them in corn. I have seen around 250 cow-days/acre grazing in the corn or higher. So for calves that would equate to maybe 400 calf days grazing/acre if I make them take the corn down. However if I am trying to maximize gain and finish prior to late April processing I don't want to force them to eat the mid and lower stalks in the field so I think I should get about 300 CALF-days/acre in the corn. I do think the combination of them eating leaves, husks, corn ears with the whole cob and maybe still a bit of hay puts on pounds and taste in the final beef. I'm not sure where the tenderness comes from but I suspect the age (harvesting at about 14 months) helps tenderness too. As well as helping the pocketbook.

And when green-up comes in early May, the last year's steers and processed heifers are gone and I can concentrate on the next crop of calves and corn. I am going to keep a couple steers back on grass into maybe late June or early July this coming summer to spread the harvest a bit time- and work-wise. so I will have two that go from corn back to grass. It will be interesting to compare their beef to the animals harvested straight off of corn.

It is interesting they suggest the Round-up ready corn for grazing and not leaving any grassy understory. I agree with that but am looking at about twice the 94 bu/a yields described in that article. And that is a key point. I will never let any animals into corn that is not physiologically mature. I will NEVER again let my cattle graze green, standing, high-yielding, fertilized corn. Just too much chance of nitrate poisoning or acidiosis.

BTW here is a good link regarding acidosis caused by too much grain too quickly in cattle: http://www.thebeefsite.com/articles/1926/beef-cattle-nutritional-disorders (scroll down the page a bit).

This weekend I got the wean calves all in the corral and put out a pretty good sized bucket of sweet feed in the corral fenceline bunk. Some knew what it is and dug in others did not seem to know what that stuff was. I closed the gate leaving the wean calves in the corral for an hour or so while I moved hay and when I came back they were calm and all had had some of the feed and also gotten used to the idea good tasting things are found in the corral and in that concrete bunk. This was also the introduction to grain for some of them. they had usually been pushed out of the way by the cows during the occasional summer training treats.

In any case, it is good to read that at least someone has had good experience along these lines. If mine average about 750 lb when they start grain and put on 2.5 lb/day for the 115 days or so I plan on having them in corn they should be near my target of 1100 lb avg in late April as they go for a ride to the processors. I'm moving calving start up a week or two this year into mid-March to try to gain a few more pounds next year.

I also think there is a major difference in grazing standing corn "on the stump" compared to shelled corn - much more roughage. I also think the "strip grazing" of the corn as the article describes it is extremely important. I will have hay available to them while on corn and open up just very small areas at first which will gradually get bigger as their rumens adapt.

Don't mean to carry on here but I really appreciate the link to the article. Thank you Douglas.

Jim

BTW,someone asked for a picture of my new bull above. I really don't have a good photo of him alone but here is one I posted earlier with my Huth bull U070 in the background, fwiw. My experienced neighbor is very high on him - he calls U070 "Shorty". A half brother to my previous bull T021 but very different conformation. A good beefy bull with the smaller frame size I am looking for. Sorry I don't have a regular bull picture handy right now. U070 is the 3rd one back, obviously :)
IMG_1878_yrlgheifer91_springheifer3910_bullU70_092510.jpg
 

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