Victoria
Well-known member
OK, I know that extra "dummy" teats are not a desirable trait but my question is are you docked in a class if your cow has them?
Extra Teats and the Show Ring
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Altering an animal dosen't help it's genetics. Make it criteria in your selection up front and you won't need to "fix" an animal to be a winner. Heck you might even decide to use the animal as breed stock and that would be a step in the right direction.
certherfbeef
Well-known member
1848":1f9rcqli said:
Since when does lack of extra teats count as selection criteria for breeding stock?
The only time they are a problem is if they are too close to the origional 4 and will hinder the calf, or the milker.
I never said they were a problem. I said if you want to breed animals that don't have it then you need to select for it. Then the animals you breed will have the "perfect udder" genetics so you can select from your own herd for show, and will not have to worry about the "so called" -discounted trait!
So, Certherfbeef are you saying that a judge in the arena is not picking breedstock?, and only picking what looks best? Shouldn't they be synonomous? Isn't this where we sometimes defeat our own purpose as seedstock breeders when it becomes what will win, instead of what is functional?
Somone elaborate on this "cut 'em off" thing..... I had a heifer calf born a few days ago, and when I lifted it's leg to see if it was a bull or heifer, I had to look twice. There were six teats, all the same size. Do you just hack 'em off with a sissors, or is it a little more delicate of a procedure?
Victoria
Well-known member
ollie":svvp5ttm said:
Because that sounds painful! I know that we castrate our calves but this is a 14 month old heifer.
Victoria
Well-known member
Hi 1848,
Honestly we never thought of it when we went to the sale. We have always had commercial cattle and although as I say extra teats may not be desirable we have never had a problem with any cow that has had them so we just didn't think of it. The other day I was brushing this heifer and getting her used to being handled everywhere and ran into them. I have never shown before and just was wondering if I would get docked. I did notice at the sale that the prices seemed to be high on another cow that had an extra teat (the teat would not interfere with milking).
In any herd there are always some that are "better" show quality than others and I just wanted to know when the time comes to show them a bit more about the criteria of which to choose.
I do agree that we should be breeding what is functional not just what looks good but to be honest it doesn't always work. We've got a commercial cow that we wouldn't have bought, we got a buyer (just once) to buy us some heifers and he brought her home. Her conformation is nothing to write home about but she produces one of our largest calves every year, brought up 4 for us one year (her choice to mother the orphans not ours) and has never had a calving problem. Yet if we were to take her to a show she probably wouldn't do so well. I've also seen some great looking cows that are duds.
Honestly we never thought of it when we went to the sale. We have always had commercial cattle and although as I say extra teats may not be desirable we have never had a problem with any cow that has had them so we just didn't think of it. The other day I was brushing this heifer and getting her used to being handled everywhere and ran into them. I have never shown before and just was wondering if I would get docked. I did notice at the sale that the prices seemed to be high on another cow that had an extra teat (the teat would not interfere with milking).
In any herd there are always some that are "better" show quality than others and I just wanted to know when the time comes to show them a bit more about the criteria of which to choose.
I do agree that we should be breeding what is functional not just what looks good but to be honest it doesn't always work. We've got a commercial cow that we wouldn't have bought, we got a buyer (just once) to buy us some heifers and he brought her home. Her conformation is nothing to write home about but she produces one of our largest calves every year, brought up 4 for us one year (her choice to mother the orphans not ours) and has never had a calving problem. Yet if we were to take her to a show she probably wouldn't do so well. I've also seen some great looking cows that are duds.
Victoria
Well-known member
Sorry Ollie, I should have thanked you for your reply.
Hello Victoria, All judges are different. Some are educated in the classroom and others are educated on the farm. Many people follow the judges in shows more than they follow the cattle (if they know the judges well), just so they know what he or she will be looking for and what animals they should take! I think a judge knows a good udder when he see's one, despite the extra teats. It is just more attactive sometimes and you never know when a judge will take a superior animal and place it behind an attractive uddered one, even though the other animal has a perfectly functional udder.
Udders are one of the most important traits you can breed in your females, so they will be examined very carefully by judges. It will depend on what has been ingrained into them in the career as to how they view what a good and functional udder is. Certherfbeef is right in that the two (or one, or three) dummy teats can cause problems if they are close to active teats and are larger in size, but this only usually fools very early calves, or ones not strong enough to work that udder for a while following birth. I have never heard of a calf starving from suckling dummy teats. If one did it was because the calf was a big dummy, or it was so weak it had one or two weak attempts to get connected and failed then never had the strength to try again. Some of them little "suckers" will give that udder heck till they strike payday!
Sounds like a great cow. Don't discredit her for confirmation if she is performing like that... :shock: put a good confirmation bull in her and work with that next generation.. ;-)
I mean "conformation".....thanks!
Victoria
Well-known member
1848, Thanks for your post. Sounds a lot like showing horses which we were into when I was a kid. This summer I am going to get out to a few shows (without showing myself) and have a look at things.
As for our "Super Cow" she is amazing. We kept her last two daughters and she had another heifer this year that will be joining the herd. ;-)
As for our "Super Cow" she is amazing. We kept her last two daughters and she had another heifer this year that will be joining the herd. ;-)
Victoria
Well-known member
That's what I was thinking too milkmaid.
sidney411
Well-known member
Do they just cut them off? How do you know which ones will be the dud's if they are evenly spaced on a heifer calf?
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
sidney411":17ctwq5z said:
First, I show cattle & do cut extra teats off. But I can honestly say, I have never been able to correlate an inherited pattern.
Anyway, first and foremost - you must be able to identify WHICH one/ones are the dummy teats. If not - STOP - do nothing.
Generally, the dummy teats are smaller and "offset".
If you can DEFFINATELY identify the dummies, I pull them down slightly with one hand and use sharp scissors to cut them off close to the body. You may get a drop of blood, but usually not much if any. If it is fly season, I spray Blu-Kote on it. Also, you should not do it AFTER they are pregnant. Seems like I was told they will "leak" from that spot when they nurse a calf.
By the way, I have my husband "tail" the heifer so I don't get my brains kicked out.
If you cannot identify the right ones, it's not worth taking a chance of cutting the working teat off.
First let me say that I am a cattle show judge.
Most of the times on heifer's, unless they are bred, you have to get up underneath them to even look at the teats. They are tight and not that long. So for me and most judges that I know it doesn't make a difference if there are 4, 5, or 6. Hairy cattle have hair so long you can't see them either. If they are bred or heavy bred so that you can see the teats, they have the ability to reproduce which is a plus for them in the show ring also, so most don't count the extra dummy teats.
Most of the times on heifer's, unless they are bred, you have to get up underneath them to even look at the teats. They are tight and not that long. So for me and most judges that I know it doesn't make a difference if there are 4, 5, or 6. Hairy cattle have hair so long you can't see them either. If they are bred or heavy bred so that you can see the teats, they have the ability to reproduce which is a plus for them in the show ring also, so most don't count the extra dummy teats.
I've seen teats cut off older cows when a quarter gets severe mastitis that won't clear up... takes a l-o-n-g time to heal. It will eventually scar over, but up to a year - or more - afterwards the quarter can abcess and the infection will drain out of some other location on the udder.
Never seen milk leak out of any location but the working teats.
Never seen milk leak out of any location but the working teats.
